Coffee shop dates and how to escalate


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:11 pm 
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Cruise101 wrote:
Arch Stanton wrote:
Cruise101 wrote:
I sent the message "We're going to X bar tomorrow night for drinks. I'll pick you up at 9." I got the "I can't, I'm busy tomorrow" response with no reschedule from her side. In the past she would suggest/be open to a reschedule. This time she didn't. To me this implies it's game over. [
What should be my reply if i should reply at all? "No problem, how about x day?


You:

"Cool, have fun. I'll hit you up later."


Then give it a week of no contact.



I ended up responding with "cool, have fun. I'll hit you up later" before R.C's post stating not to reply.
I didn't get a reply back, and I'm not expecting one. I just feel like I gave her the power after sending that text. I haven't even touched that girl, so she didn't deserve the chill response. I wasn't going to reply to her initially but I convinced myself that it was the cool thing to do. Regardless of the outcome with this girl, I'm going to move on to the next girl on my list. Plenty of fish in the sea right? Will start fresh with the right vibe from date #1 using the tips given throughout this thread on teasing/flirting.
OP, don't contact this girl anymore. If she is interested in you, she'll get in contact. If she's not interested and you contact her, you've become the guy that can't take a hint because she's turned you down, hasn't given you an alternative day, and hasn't reinitiated contact.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:51 am 
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JackZero wrote:
Cruise101 wrote:
Cruise101 wrote:
I sent the message "We're going to X bar tomorrow night for drinks. I'll pick you up at 9." I got the "I can't, I'm busy tomorrow" response with no reschedule from her side. In the past she would suggest/be open to a reschedule. This time she didn't. To me this implies it's game over.
What should be my reply if i should reply at all? "No problem, how about x day?


I ended up responding with "cool, have fun. I'll hit you up later" before R.C's post stating not to reply.
I didn't get a reply back, and I'm not expecting one. I just feel like I gave her the power after sending that text. I haven't even touched that girl, so she didn't deserve the chill response. I wasn't going to reply to her initially but I convinced myself that it was the cool thing to do. Regardless of the outcome with this girl, I'm going to move on to the next girl on my list. Plenty of fish in the sea right? Will start fresh with the right vibe from date #1 using the tips given throughout this thread on teasing/flirting.

OP, don't contact this girl anymore. If she is interested in you, she'll get in contact. If she's not interested and you contact her, you've become the guy that can't take a hint because she's turned you down, hasn't given you an alternative day, and hasn't reinitiated contact.


I'll take this approach. My reasoning for it is from the initial statement "We're going to X bar tomorrow night for drinks. I'll pick you up at 9" I am making two requests: (1) Do you want to go on a date? and (2) Are you free tomorrow? When she responds to the statement she is responding to either one or both questions. If she was interested in going on a date but not free tomorrow, she would have given an alternative day/time like in the past. If she's not interested in going on a date, then she is "not free tomorrow" for me. It appears that girls genuinely think that not saying "no" straight up to a date is an act of kindness. They use a delay and defer technique by saying "not tomorrow" then they just fade away. Their intention is to spare the guy's feelings in that moment when in reality it can do more damage and waste time than a clear rejection. Because I'm aware of this, I won't be wasting any more time contacting her again to go out. I've taken the hint.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:21 am 
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Cruise101 wrote:
I'll take this approach. My reasoning for it is from the initial statement "We're going to X bar tomorrow night for drinks. I'll pick you up at 9" I am making two requests: (1) Do you want to go on a date? and (2) Are you free tomorrow? When she responds to the statement she is responding to either one or both questions. If she was interested in going on a date but not free tomorrow, she would have given an alternative day/time like in the past. If she's not interested in going on a date, then she is "not free tomorrow" for me. It appears that girls genuinely think that not saying "no" straight up to a date is an act of kindness. They use a delay and defer technique by saying "not tomorrow" then they just fade away. Their intention is to spare the guy's feelings in that moment when in reality it can do more damage and waste time than a clear rejection. Because I'm aware of this, I won't be wasting any more time contacting her again to go out. I've taken the hint.
Smart man


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:39 am 
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Quote:
I'll take this approach. My reasoning for it is from the initial statement "We're going to X bar tomorrow night for drinks. I'll pick you up at 9" I am making two requests: (1) Do you want to go on a date? and (2) Are you free tomorrow? When she responds to the statement she is responding to either one or both questions. If she was interested in going on a date but not free tomorrow, she would have given an alternative day/time like in the past. If she's not interested in going on a date, then she is "not free tomorrow" for me. It appears that girls genuinely think that not saying "no" straight up to a date is an act of kindness. They use a delay and defer technique by saying "not tomorrow" then they just fade away. Their intention is to spare the guy's feelings in that moment when in reality it can do more damage and waste time than a clear rejection. Because I'm aware of this, I won't be wasting any more time contacting her again to go out. I've taken the hint.


What's glaring to me is that you started going on "dates" with this chick 6 months ago, and the last "date" was a cafe. This means in 6 months, you havent progressed with dating in general, if you still thought a cafe was a good idea. Going forward, date more than one chick and dont do coffee/tea/friendly dates. Dont go to the next chick to take her for tea and to wait to kiss/fuck. Dont look for or wait for oppurtunities to go for the kiss; just go for it. You got 3 chances to make something happen, the next girl may not be so nice.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:47 am 
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neo87 wrote:
Quote:
I'll take this approach. My reasoning for it is from the initial statement "We're going to X bar tomorrow night for drinks. I'll pick you up at 9" I am making two requests: (1) Do you want to go on a date? and (2) Are you free tomorrow? When she responds to the statement she is responding to either one or both questions. If she was interested in going on a date but not free tomorrow, she would have given an alternative day/time like in the past. If she's not interested in going on a date, then she is "not free tomorrow" for me. It appears that girls genuinely think that not saying "no" straight up to a date is an act of kindness. They use a delay and defer technique by saying "not tomorrow" then they just fade away. Their intention is to spare the guy's feelings in that moment when in reality it can do more damage and waste time than a clear rejection. Because I'm aware of this, I won't be wasting any more time contacting her again to go out. I've taken the hint.


What's glaring to me is that you started going on "dates" with this chick 6 months ago, and the last "date" was a cafe. This means in 6 months, you havent progressed with dating in general, if you still thought a cafe was a good idea. Going forward, date more than one chick and dont do coffee/tea/friendly dates. Dont go to the next chick to take her for tea and to wait to kiss/fuck. Dont look for or wait for oppurtunities to go for the kiss; just go for it. You got 3 chances to make something happen, the next girl may not be so nice.


After the 1st date 6 months ago she left the country for 4 months. I didn't make progress during those 4 months because I didn't approach/meet other women due to a 60 hour work week. I started approaching women again last month, built attraction and rapport, and got their numbers. Unfortunately, I spent too much time trying to seduce them via text messages where these women and I would be texting each other back and forth about our day throughout the week. I felt "satisfied" just texting these women and I viewed their reply as a sign of interest/building attraction and that I was getting closer to getting them in bed. It became clear I wasn't getting anywhere when I realized I was always the one re-initiating text conversations even when the text convo ended in a fun-vibe and they "lol or haha" and responded to all my questions/statements. Early this month I discovered R.C's texting thread and that changed my general texting mindset completely so I'm only using texting with the immediate goal of scheduling a date.

In the last 2 dates with that girl, she likely got bored of me because I was too agreeable and pleasing/friendly. I asked interview-like questions about things I like to see if she also likes them so that I could showcase only those things we have in common when we're hanging out. My biggest fear is that if I don't find out her likes/dislikes early on and I invite her over to my place and all I have that day are strawberries, seafood, wine and chocolate and she's a non-drinking vegan who doesn't like strawberries and chocolate, that would create an awkward moment. Because of my agreeableness, I didn't respond very well to her dislikes. "Oh, you don't you like x fruit? Which fruit do you like then?" Now I know that a better way to handle that would have been through teasing. I don't tease or flirt because I don't want to risk offending them. I've never teased/flirted in my life and the one time that I did with this girl after the 1st date, she got offended. So I took a step back and didn't tease her at all in the last 2 dates.

The thing that I'm working on now is realizing that the next girl I meet/go out with, I shouldn't try to find out all of our commonalities (food, drink, music taste, hobbies etc.) for me to showcase only those commonalities when we're together. During my conversation with some of the girls I approached, they told me they were vegetarians. I viewed this as a problem because she won't like 40% of what I cook/eat. For this reason, I've been unable to move things forward with vegetarians. There's no way I'm not going to eat chicken when she's around.
To improve on this, from now on, I'll top being agreeable/pleasing and asking too many interview-like questions to find out our commonalities.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:29 am 
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Cruise101 wrote:
neo87 wrote:
Quote:
I'll take this approach. My reasoning for it is from the initial statement "We're going to X bar tomorrow night for drinks. I'll pick you up at 9" I am making two requests: (1) Do you want to go on a date? and (2) Are you free tomorrow? When she responds to the statement she is responding to either one or both questions. If she was interested in going on a date but not free tomorrow, she would have given an alternative day/time like in the past. If she's not interested in going on a date, then she is "not free tomorrow" for me. It appears that girls genuinely think that not saying "no" straight up to a date is an act of kindness. They use a delay and defer technique by saying "not tomorrow" then they just fade away. Their intention is to spare the guy's feelings in that moment when in reality it can do more damage and waste time than a clear rejection. Because I'm aware of this, I won't be wasting any more time contacting her again to go out. I've taken the hint.


What's glaring to me is that you started going on "dates" with this chick 6 months ago, and the last "date" was a cafe. This means in 6 months, you havent progressed with dating in general, if you still thought a cafe was a good idea. Going forward, date more than one chick and dont do coffee/tea/friendly dates. Dont go to the next chick to take her for tea and to wait to kiss/fuck. Dont look for or wait for oppurtunities to go for the kiss; just go for it. You got 3 chances to make something happen, the next girl may not be so nice.


After the 1st date 6 months ago she left the country for 4 months. I didn't make progress during those 4 months because I didn't approach/meet other women due to a 60 hour work week. I started approaching women again last month, built attraction and rapport, and got their numbers. Unfortunately, I spent too much time trying to seduce them via text messages where these women and I would be texting each other back and forth about our day throughout the week. I felt "satisfied" just texting these women and I viewed their reply as a sign of interest/building attraction and that I was getting closer to getting them in bed. It became clear I wasn't getting anywhere when I realized I was always the one re-initiating text conversations even when the text convo ended in a fun-vibe and they "lol or haha" and responded to all my questions/statements. Early this month I discovered R.C's texting thread and that changed my general texting mindset completely so I'm only using texting with the immediate goal of scheduling a date.

In the last 2 dates with that girl, she likely got bored of me because I was too agreeable and pleasing/friendly. I asked interview-like questions about things I like to see if she also likes them so that I could showcase only those things we have in common when we're hanging out. My biggest fear is that if I don't find out her likes/dislikes early on and I invite her over to my place and all I have that day are strawberries, seafood, wine and chocolate and she's a non-drinking vegan who doesn't like strawberries and chocolate, that would create an awkward moment. Because of my agreeableness, I didn't respond very well to her dislikes. "Oh, you don't you like x fruit? Which fruit do you like then?" Now I know that a better way to handle that would have been through teasing. I don't tease or flirt because I don't want to risk offending them. I've never teased/flirted in my life and the one time that I did with this girl after the 1st date, she got offended. So I took a step back and didn't tease her at all in the last 2 dates.

The thing that I'm working on now is realizing that the next girl I meet/go out with, I shouldn't try to find out all of our commonalities (food, drink, music taste, hobbies etc.) for me to showcase only those commonalities when we're together. During my conversation with some of the girls I approached, they told me they were vegetarians. I viewed this as a problem because she won't like 40% of what I cook/eat. For this reason, I've been unable to move things forward with vegetarians. There's no way I'm not going to eat chicken when she's around.
To improve on this, from now on, I'll top being agreeable/pleasing and asking too many interview-like questions to find out our commonalities.



Forget about commonalities for now. They're good, but not needed. Ive dated vegetarians; didnt know or care until well down the line. Its better imo if your first few dates don't involve eating anyway. You dont need wine and strawberries and all that shit for girl at your place. Stop asking chicks about what fruit they like. The reason I say forget commonalities is because attraction and escalation matter way more than whether you both like apples. If youve never teased or flirted, go out. Hit the bar or something for a while. The next 5 dates is not going to teach you much about teasing and flirting. Go out and interact with ALOT of women.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:21 am 
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Arch Stanton wrote:
Cruise101 wrote:
Newbie here.
I just went on a 3rd date (The 1st date-cycling+ice cream


Jesus christ.

Quote:
The 2nd date was at a tea shop two weeks ago).


WTF?

Quote:
The 3rd date was at a cafe and It was our first time at that cafe and she always wanted to go to it as she heard good things about it.


Kill. Me. Now.

Quote:
When we arrived, I was slow to choose a seat because I didn't know what was on the other side of the cafe. I directed her to the other corner of the cafe but all the seats were taken so we returned to the main area. She ended up choosing a table that was wide. This made it difficult to lean in as we sat across each other (mistake). When in cafes where the table has a large gap between the two people, how do you kino escalate? Where's a better place to sit?


LOL!!!!!

Dude, stop taking her on these kinds of dates, and stop worrying about this kind of nonsense. The size of a table...really? Here's what you should be worried about:

Quote:
Some random phrases I remember:
Her: "I play the flute"
Me: "That's cool. How long have you been playing?"


Boring.

Her: I play the flute
You: I bet you are good with your hands then....

Quote:
Her: talks about volunteer work she does
Me: "You're a really smart/good person. People like us should stick together"



My friend, that is terrible. Just terrible.

Her: I volunteer.
You: I volunteer too.
Her: Really, where?
You: I take sexually frustrated girls out on dates and try to help them (make sure you smile or laugh on this one)


Quote:
Me: Do you like passion fruits?
Her: No I hate passion fruits . I like strawberries.
Me: It tastes slimy?
Her: gives me weird look


Are you really talking about fruit, man? think about this for a second.

Quote:
I had no idea how to make these statements/questions flirtatious. The conversation topics we had did not allow me to use any light touching. Where could I have incorporated it?


I just showed you.

Quote:
I maintained strong eye contact. When I leaned back, she leaned in a little bit closer. When I leaned in a little bit, she leaned back.
Where do I go from here? Any posts/products you recommend? My weakness appears to be in making the conversation more sexual/flirtatious and finding opportunities to kino escalate.


Your weakness is not flirting, and lame venues.

Text her this right now:

"We're going to Bar X tomorrow night for drinks. I'll pick you up at 9."

Lead. Flirt.


Damn those are good.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:28 pm 
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BlackWillyWonka wrote:
Arch Stanton wrote:
Cruise101 wrote:
Newbie here.
I just went on a 3rd date (The 1st date-cycling+ice cream


Jesus christ.

Quote:
The 2nd date was at a tea shop two weeks ago).


WTF?

Quote:
The 3rd date was at a cafe and It was our first time at that cafe and she always wanted to go to it as she heard good things about it.


Kill. Me. Now.

Quote:
When we arrived, I was slow to choose a seat because I didn't know what was on the other side of the cafe. I directed her to the other corner of the cafe but all the seats were taken so we returned to the main area. She ended up choosing a table that was wide. This made it difficult to lean in as we sat across each other (mistake). When in cafes where the table has a large gap between the two people, how do you kino escalate? Where's a better place to sit?


LOL!!!!!

Dude, stop taking her on these kinds of dates, and stop worrying about this kind of nonsense. The size of a table...really? Here's what you should be worried about:

Quote:
Some random phrases I remember:
Her: "I play the flute"
Me: "That's cool. How long have you been playing?"


Boring.

Her: I play the flute
You: I bet you are good with your hands then....

Quote:
Her: talks about volunteer work she does
Me: "You're a really smart/good person. People like us should stick together"



My friend, that is terrible. Just terrible.

Her: I volunteer.
You: I volunteer too.
Her: Really, where?
You: I take sexually frustrated girls out on dates and try to help them (make sure you smile or laugh on this one)


Quote:
Me: Do you like passion fruits?
Her: No I hate passion fruits . I like strawberries.
Me: It tastes slimy?
Her: gives me weird look


Are you really talking about fruit, man? think about this for a second.

Quote:
I had no idea how to make these statements/questions flirtatious. The conversation topics we had did not allow me to use any light touching. Where could I have incorporated it?


I just showed you.

Quote:
I maintained strong eye contact. When I leaned back, she leaned in a little bit closer. When I leaned in a little bit, she leaned back.
Where do I go from here? Any posts/products you recommend? My weakness appears to be in making the conversation more sexual/flirtatious and finding opportunities to kino escalate.


Your weakness is not flirting, and lame venues.

Text her this right now:

"We're going to Bar X tomorrow night for drinks. I'll pick you up at 9."

Lead. Flirt.


Damn those are good.


His responses really are mind-blowing. Arch Stanton is phenomenal at what he does.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:58 pm 
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Commonality is cool op. It develops liking. However, if you overuse it, liking turns to familiarity. Familiarity breeds contempt. It's a great tool for pick up; not as a standalone tool, but as part of your arsenal in combination with other tools which you execute with a rhythm.

Seduction Rhythms Using Commonalities

1. Commonality + Sexual Escalation = You build on one commonality then you escalate. You build on the next commonality then you escalate some more with increasing intensity. Repeat and rinse.

2. Commonality + Scarcity + Sexual Escalation = You build propinquity (commonality built by presence or availability in a venue or location) for two weeks then you disappear for one week. When you reappear, escalate hard towards the f-close. If that doesn't work within a week, you disappear for 3 days. When you reappear, you escalate harder. Repeat and rinse.

3. Commonality + Breaking Rapport + Sexual Escalation = When a girl feels really comfortable with the commonality you built, you break rapport to create sexual tension. At the peak of the tension the girl is feeling in the moment, you escalate hard. If you cannot get the f-close in the moment, try again next time. Repeat and rinse.

Those are three approaches that I can think of right off the bat based on what I often do infield.

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general-questions/topic137931.html


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:30 pm 
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In order to go in for a kiss, you need sexual tension. To create sexual tension, you need physical escalation and emotional connection. To create both, you need to engaging more emotional topic (positive, dont go asking her about her most traumatic experience). This is the part where you failed. Playing 20 questions game does not engage anyone's emotion.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:10 pm 
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Cruise101 wrote:
R.C wrote:
What should be my reply if i should reply at all? "No problem, how about x day?


-"How 'bout your sister?"

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:08 am 
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Arch Stanton wrote:

It obviously sounds like the girl who said no to the last date was a girl you found very attractive.The problem was, you wasted her time with lame dates. She probably just wanted to fuck.



I viewed that girl to be sensitive, smart, introverted and attractive. Using the Pandora's box 8 types of women (for those who read/watched the program) I classified her as an NDI Investor-Denier-Idealist. NDIs and NJIs are the two types of girls that I believe are the ideal type for me after having a platonic 1-year relationship with an NDR.
Because this girl was shy and receptive I viewed her as an "innocent girl" like Salzy described his experience in the forum. From Pandora's box, I thought she would like several dates meeting once/week maximum where we get to know each other and I talk to her using an "us" and "we" frame. The program did not suggest to get sexual early in the first few dates and I feared it would repel her. In reality, it feels like she turned away because I didn't make a move and the last 2 dates were lame.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:13 am 
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Pandora's Box is not working for you. Dump it. Try something else.

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Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:00 am 
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I just finished reading Magic Bullets and it has been eye-opening. I didn't know the Attraction-Qualification-Comfort-Seduction model and that you shouldn't spend too much time in one phase. I spent way too long in the attraction phase with that girl through 2 dates when it was already accomplished on the first day I met her. I also didn't qualify her properly and I tried skipping to the comfort and seduction phase.

After that 3-date experience, I've become weary and hopeless that I haven't approached or met new women the last 2 weeks. I'll be honest and say that I'm discouraged by the way the dating scene works. Trying to raise my value to a girl by using negs, hardcore DHV'ing myself, and trying to make her jealous to show that I'm desired by other women are all things I'm disturbed by but have to accept. Do you guys do this? I'm getting old almost 27 and still a virgin. I'm a nice, agreeable, calm, easy-going and humanitarian person but the harsh truth has been that nice guys finish last.

I went through the forum to read other people's story and I ran into these questions posed by R.C. to identify cracks in my life.
Do you have a job that you enjoy? Yes
Do you have friends you go out with every week? Yes
Do you have fun on the weekends? Yes
Do you have a personal project you work on? Yes
Do you have hobbies? Yes various sports, artistic activities like playing music, culinary, and volunteering
Do you have accomplishments? Yes
Do you have a life you're proud with, save for women? Everything is awesome except that no woman wants to enter my life even though I am of average height, not fat or skinny but not muscular either. These physical traits shouldn't matter too much but I listed it for clarification.

My answers to the questions have not revealed an area that I should work on except maybe to become muscular and hit the gym. But some PUAs state that women don't select a man based on their physique so I never viewed that as an area to change if I'm in good shape. Unless things work the other way around.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:15 am 
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Cruise101 wrote:
I viewed that girl to be sensitive, smart, introverted and attractive. Using the Pandora's box 8 types of women (for those who read/watched the program) I classified her as an NDI Investor-Denier-Idealist. NDIs and NJIs are the two types of girls that I believe are the ideal type for me after having a platonic 1-year relationship with an NDR.



Jesus christ that's a weak frame, my friend. Not to mention overly complicated.

Here's what matters:

You are really attracted to the girl. She is really attracted to you. You don;t blow her attraction by taking her on lame dates and being boring.



Quote:
Because this girl was shy and receptive I viewed her as an "innocent girl" like Salzy described his experience in the forum.


lol. "Shy" girls are some of the most fun and wild in bed. Don't buy it, ever.


Quote:
From Pandora's box, I thought she would like several dates meeting once/week maximum where we get to know each other and I talk to her using an "us" and "we" frame.



Jesus christ.

Quote:
The program did not suggest to get sexual early in the first few dates and I feared it would repel her. In reality, it feels like she turned away because I didn't make a move and the last 2 dates were lame.



Yeah, so fuck Pandora's box, lol.

Look, man. Women and men are designed to have sex. Women like sex with men and women they are attracted to. If a girl goes on a date with you, she's attracted. It's your job to hold that attraction in place by leading, and being congruent with your desires.

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