Ever since the advent of dating/hookup apps like Tinder, a lot of people have been asking me questions about how to succeed on such apps. I didn't use them. I didn't like the idea of them. I thought they were dumb. I still think they're dumb, but I'm pushing myself out of my comfort zone by diving into them and learning how to use these apps and to succeed on them.
Why do I think they're dumb? Well, it's no secret that I prefer a texting philosophy of keeping things short and to-the-point. There are way too many uncontrollable variables when it comes to texting, but when you meet people face-to-face, you can set up exact frames, microcalibrate, predict subcommunicated intentions, and subcommunicate a slew of things that you otherwise would not be able to subcommunicate via text. When you're limited to JUST texting as the only means of communication, you're severely handicapped in regards to anything involving seduction.
I can walk up to a girl in real life and just say "Hi" while subcommunicating tons of signals that exude confidence and radiate charm (all very consciously done at first but second-nature to me at this point) and it will work just fine. If I just say "Hi" over text I won't ever get a response. That just feels wrong to me.
Also, before reading any further, please note that it is always, always, always better to meet women through "approaches" in real life instead of meeting them on the internet or any apps. Don't allow yourself to push yourself further into a comfort zone of NOT talking to women in real life. If you do this text-based stuff more than you talk to women in real life, your skills will suffer for it. Only start doing this kind of stuff after you've reached a point of having very little to no fear of talking to women face to face.
It's also worth noting that I went for quality over quantity in my endeavors thus far with these apps. I did not seek to maximize the number of lays I could get; I actually passed off a number of opportunities for meets and lays that I know I wouldn't have been too satisfied with. I sought real rapport before trying to meet someone and allowed communication to stale out if I wasn't really feeling it for any reason.
Before we get to my actual Lay Reports, let's talk about my profile.
I have not set up an optimal profile. I'm not done experimenting with that. I'm currently using a profile strategy that only works sometimes, but it works kinda well when it does. Therefore, I advise against doing exactly
what I did for my profile:
- I used 2 pictures. My lead was a fashionable picture that showed only half my face. The second picture was a very mediocre shirtless gym selfie (I have been lifting for approx. 1 year).
- My profile was one sentence that consisted of two very opposite things: one masculine and one feminine thing. Please do not use my exact sentence; it's something that genuinely expresses who I am and it would be inauthentic for someone to just copy it word-for-word, and I also don't want it to ever become a saturated thing that lots of dudes end up saying. The formula goes: "I like (insert something masculine here) and (insert something feminine here)." E.g. "I like fast cars and caramel macchiatos." The sentence I used in my profile was, "I like bourbon and cute shit."
I did not get a lot of matches because I have a natural disadvantage on this platform in the first place; I'm Asian, you can easily assume that I'm short, and I certainly don't have model looks. However, the rare times that I did matches, I got them because:
- My first picture was fashionable so it had at least some appeal (If you're not fashionable, get women to pick out your clothes). Although it didn't really show enough of my face, meaning that it might not be good enough for women to want to swipe right just on that picture alone, it made some girls curious enough to view the rest of my profile, catching some of their attention with my one-sentence profile text.
- The profile text of having one sentence with 2 opposite things in it was funny because it involves an unexpected combination. It also made me stand out because there's an element of being more secure in my masculinity by admitting that I liked something generally "feminine." It hints at fearlessness if you demonstrate an apathetic attitude toward patriarchal norms. At the same time the sentence rooted me in a masculine identity so that I'm not seen as actually feminine.
- I feel like I got more matches with just one sentence in my profile than with any longer profiles.
- Every girl will tell you that putting up a shirtless gym selfie is a bad idea. However, I've gotten better results after putting it up. I've even gotten girls who I've already matched with taking more initiative to talk with me after I had put it up.
The good: I can see myself using these apps to find new partners on a very regular basis without having to leave home as much.
The bad: I can definitely find and seduce hotter girls in real life than those I match with on these apps. The hottest girls I've seduced from real life would for sure instantly swipe left on me on Tinder.
The ugly: I got stood up once. That's the worst thing that happened. Not too bad if you ask me. The bots were more annoying.
The apps: TanTan, Bumble, and Tinder.
Companion apps: BlueFlame (more on this later)The Lays:TanTan
TanTan is an app mostly used by Chinese people. It's China's version of Tinder. I sought an Asian-only kind of Tinder mainly because of my personal preferences; I like Asian girls better than others. Also, being an Asian guy, the majority of white girls would swipe left on me and most of my matches on Tinder ended up being Asian anyway. Might as well go closer to the source, right?
I got a ton more matches on here than I did on Tinder, but I could barely hold a conversation with a lot of these girls because of language barriers. I don't know Chinese. A lot of them also lived too far away. The number of people using this app is much smaller in my area than the number of people using Tinder.
One day I matched with a non-Chinese girl (rare on TanTan) I will call HB BarelyLegal
because she had just turned 18. Here are direct screenshots of our conversation on TanTan:http://imgur.com/a/ZkITm
I opened with that line because she also had a profile saying that she wasn't Chinese. We were both different in the same way since we were both non-Chinese people using an app made for Chinese people.
Right after that, we took our conversation to WeChat, the Chinese version of WhatsApp/Kik. It's always important to take your conversations outside of whatever app you met them on, preferably with a phone number so that you can just text directly. For TanTan it's almost customary to move from there to WeChat once you've established some rapport. In this case, we only exchanged phone numbers after we had already spent a night together because we were communicating just fine over WeChat anyway.
I can't show the whole conversation we had over WeChat after that because it's just way too much content, but here are some highlights:http://imgur.com/a/WiCA6
(Warning: Over 200 images)
Most of you will not want to go through all 200+ of those screenshots, so here's a TL;DR:
I built some more rapport and found out she's a virgin. I have a "no virgins" rule because sleeping with virgins is a bad idea for several reasons, but that's a topic for another discussion. However, I already felt some pretty significant attraction to HB BarelyLegal
(both looks and personality) at this point so I decided to make an exception and continue to pursue her. I do not advise going after virgins.
Because of her relative inexperience with men, and because of what I felt like I needed for myself at that point in my life, I took things very slowly with her and texted her for upwards of 3 weeks pretty much every day before meeting up. I took the time to build a very high level of MANY emotions including tons of comfort. Major themes to take away from the screenshots: Sexualization, Frame control, Managing expectations, Making her feel safe, Affection, Fun/humor, Uninhibited/unapologetic expressiveness, Behavioral shaping through rewards and reciprocity, Lowering any potential Anti-Slut Defense, Dominant leading role, Future projections, and very detailed Logistics.
All in all it felt like I was following the concepts from my First Date Blueprint
This was the first time either of us had met anyone from a dating/hookup app, and the first place we met was at the hotel room I booked for us. YOLO, right? If you go through my WeChat screenshots, you'll get a pretty good idea on how I arranged this.
The first thing I do when I see her is give her a big bear hug. It was pretty awkward. Miscalibrated. Don't overdo the greeting like I did. Makes me cringe when I think about it again. A light hug is a much better way to go.
I sat her down and told her something along the lines of, "Look. I don't want you to get the feeling that you owe me anything just because I'm paying for all of this tonight. I don't want you to feel any pressure for anything, either. I'm basically spending money on myself here because I'm enjoying myself no matter what happens." I felt that it was important to reinforce this frame because of the huge gap in experience. She actually felt bad that I was paying for everything, though, because she's a very sweet girl. This certainly wasn't about me being a sugar daddy or her liking me just because of money or anything of the sort.
Immediately after that little speech, we left to go to our reservation at a Burmese restaurant. It was the first time either of us had tried Burmese food. Not bad. A bit too salty, though. Conversation was flowing just fine just like conversations we've had over WeChat. The only difference was that we were both a little more nervous (I guess she was significantly more nervous) since it was the first time either of us were meeting someone in these circumstances.
It's worth noting that, even if I was a little nervous due to my own inexperience of meeting girls from the internet (apps), I stayed as calm and relaxed as I could. Remember: she feels what you feel.
Throughout this whole time I was making sure to continue kino here and there. After dinner we drove off to see a movie at the theater. While I was driving I held her hand. While watching the movie I was quick to raise the separator between our seats and put my arm around her. I was pretty much doing what I usually do for movie dates.
I kept the kino intimate with interlocked fingers and everything and I kissed her on the cheek.
It's usually a better idea to escalate further than that when you're getting touchy-feely at the movies but I could definitely afford to take my time given my circumstances. And I wasn't taking my time due to any fear or hesitation; it was to savor the moment and to build both more tension and more comfort. In most situations, however, you'll want to go faster and lock in that mutual physical intimacy sooner. It all depends on the situation and you'll know when to do what with more experience (calibration).
We went back to our hotel room and started making out. I escalated things very slowly but intensely while building tons of comfort. We didn't get much sleep. I'll leave the rest to your imagination.
The best things to take away from this are probably: the virtue of being patient, not desperate, and fully enjoying the moment. I make a point of enjoying whatever intimacy I have with a girl whether it be sex or just a friendly conversation where we connect on a small level. I savor that shit in the present moment so that I don't get distracted by any other agenda that might put me "in my head" or make me desperate in any way. I keep all my expressions of desire as being "wanty" rather than needy.Bumble
If you didn't already know, Bumble is just like Tinder except you can't message the women first. They have to message you after matching or else the match disappears after 24 hours. Some of you might think that this is great because you have no pressure to come up with the opening line. You might think that you don't have to take the initiative, so you think you can just be lazier. Well, you're wrong. Sure, the women on Bumble might be a little more proactive (if they message you at all), but you still have to use the same leading conversational skills as you would anywhere else or the interaction will fall flat.
It's also worth noting that conversations over text and apps like this can fall flat for any reason, any time. And sometimes there's nothing you can do about it. Be cool with this and keep an abundance mentality AT ALL TIMES.
I was not attracted to most of the matches I got on Bumble. At the time of this writing, Bumble does not have a limit on how many profiles you can "like," so I just mindlessly swiped right on every single profile while doing other shit so that I could basically split-test what I put in my profile.
My first match was this really hot blonde (no idea how that happened with the shitty profile I was using at the time) that I talked to very briefly before mentioning that I was allergic to cats and she never spoke to me again after that. I guess she really likes cats. But, like, damn bruh. I like cats, too, but I can't help that I'm allergic.
I eventually did match with and talk to someone I found interesting: a powerlifter/bikini competitor that I shall call HB Competitor
. She was a lot more forward than I'm used to and you might be able to see how we're both
kiiinda taking the lead:http://imgur.com/a/QyoVL
I actually found that conversation quite boring, but I thought it was super cool that she was a competitor and I've always thought that girls who love dogs are great.
Our conversation over text had a lot of boring stuff at first (more regular getting-to-know-a-stranger kind of questions and details like where we've lived and shit like that), but here's where I took a sharp turn to make things more interesting:http://imgur.com/a/KtaU5
A little out of the blue, I brought up a theme she mentioned in our conversation in the Bumble app (men being intimidated by her) that's actually interesting to me. I do that a lot; I abruptly change the subject during a conversation to whatever catches my interest more in the moment. She kind of went in a different direction from there but I went with it and added my own themes (sexualization) to it in a way that complemented her themes like any good conversationalist would. From there it didn't take much to secure a meet. I guess she was inspired by my silliness to be in a spontaneous mood.
It's also worth noting that, at the time I was talking to her, I really was using Bumble just to find someone to watch that movie with and I really was cool with having nothing than more that. I'm always cool with whatever. Be cool. Don't be desperate. It helps make things happen.
And all you people who said that Batman V Superman was bad have waaaaay too high expectations. Ben Affleck was THE BEST BATMAN EVER. He was actually scary to criminals like Batman's supposed to be. I fuckin love Batman and now I love Ben Affleck.
I'm also sorry to HB BarelyLegal
(previous LR) for not watching Batman V Superman with her. I know you're reading this <3 <3 <3 and I had no idea that you couldn't see this with your other friends and I totally would have watched it with you if I had known.
P.S. plz send real nudes instead of just those silly selfies with the eggplant emoji stickers all over your face (though I did enjoy those, too) Update: she sent nudes after seeing this lol
I picked her up at her place, gave her a light hug, and we fluff-talked during the ride to the theater, but we stopped at a random pub to grab a quick, small bite to eat where I took the opportunity to talk more openly with her. She was taken aback by exactly what I do as a "dating coach," pretending to not like the idea of my whole pickup artist thing. She was inevitably drawn in by my irresistible sincerity and honesty, however. She just wasn't used to such openness and, as many women would, she likely found it to be both exciting and refreshing.
I did my usual thing at the movies with her and she was very turned on. We went back to her place. Even though she lifts and sculpts her body for competitions, her tits were still pretty big.
The sex with HB Competitor
was olympic. Might have something to do with the fact that we're both pretty fuckin fit. However, neither of us contacted each other again after that. I don't know about her, but for some reason I just wasn't feeling enough of a connection to want to see her again.
I have a feeling she got exactly what she wanted out of this, though. During one of our conversations, she admitted to me that she had this desire to find some "jerk" and just use him. I guess that was me lol... Leave her better than you found her, I guess...Tinder
We all know what Tinder is, but in conjunction with Tinder I used a different app called BlueFlame (currently for iOS only at the time of this writing). If you use Tinder, you need to download BlueFlame. And then you need to upgrade to the Pro version. Cheap one-time payment. It's worth it.
With it, you can mass-like and also see who has already liked you. You can also see more details of your matches such as when they were last active on Tinder, when you matched with them, etc. This is all very relevant information if you want to organize your matches and see who you need to talk to at what times. The "Who Liked Me" function give you greater control over split-testing your profile. You can also change your location if you want to warm up some matches before traveling or moving, but I have yet to try this.
I'm sure there's a similar app for Android but you'll have to ask someone else.
Even though I have the option of mass-liking with BlueFlame, I don't have Tinder Plus so my daily "likes" are still limited, so I actually swipe left A LOT on Tinder. This leads to fewer but hotter matches. Let me tell you about this fuckin sexy mixed girl I shall call HB Barista
. She's a barista.
I actually opened with something really lame (Hello hello how r u) and I have no idea why it worked. I saw her Tinder matches. Literally hundreds of hot guys. Like wtf. She can't even remember why she replied to me in the first place THANKS HB BARISTA
I asked what her hair looked like because her photos showed her with a couple different hairstyles. It was a pretty lackluster conversation but sometimes keeping things simple is the best way. By the way, always get the girl's number if you're doing a real life approach instead of just giving her yours. Doesn't seem to matter which way it goes in apps like Tinder, though.
The topic of height keeps coming up because the internet told me it was important. Well... it's not important. At least not to literally every girl I've matched with so far (plenty of them hot including all 3 of these girls). Or maybe I'm just charismatic enough for girls to not give a shit about it. Btw I learned that I'm actually 5'5" because at 5'6" HB Barista
is actually taller than me FeelsBadMan lol jk who cares
Anyway here's where we continued via text:http://imgur.com/a/9Hh7R
One of the qualifiers I usually use is to screen what kind of drinker a girl is. I usually don't trust people who say that they don't drink because it tells me that they might be scared of being honest around other people. When I started talking about alcohol she opened up A LOT and that gave me the green light to escalate things quickly toward a meet.
Most guys wouldn't be able to handle such fast sexualization in a conversation but I remained very open-minded and acted like she was talking about something very day-to-day while expressing a non-needy interest at the same time. We were both being so chill so it comes to no surprise that she was immediately open to the idea of meeting up.
I parked in front of her place, greeted her with a light hug, and we walked to the bar she mentioned as we chatted a bit. Conversation flowed well the whole night. Not much kino while walking there aside from touching the small of her back a couple times.
Sitting at the end of the bar, we had a couple of drinks while talking about a whole bunch of stuff. Mostly about things regarding her that I'm curious about. We share lots of laughs. I looked down at her feet. They're pointed toward me. Good. I lean in closer and closer, scooting myself closer and closer, and touching her hands, arms, and eventually legs more and more. I'm triangular gazing and building tons of sexual tension. She tells me that one of the reasons she was willing to meet me was that I actually had good grammar. At one point I abruptly change the topic of whatever we're talking about and say, "You know what I feel like doing with you?"
"What?" she asks with a charming smile.
"I feel like cuddling with you while watching something," I told her. She replied with a "That sounds good" or something along those lines. I can never remember the exact words girls use when they're basically saying "Yes" to my escalations like this.
We leave the bar and walk back toward her place. I exchange a few friendly words with this random homeless woman trying to talk to us. We run away. We keep chatting and build more rapport as we hold hands. We get to her door, but I can't come in because she's room-sharing with 3 other people or some shit. Damn. I should have scoped out the logistics sooner instead of just assuming we could go back to her place. Luckily, there are like 3 motels/hotels on the same street we were on.
We stop by each motel/hotel but there are no vacancies in any of them. What the fuck man it's a Tuesday. Why aren't there any vacancies on a Tuesday night? Whatever. I open up the Yelp app and search for motels in the next city over. Good thing this amazing technology exists. I drive us to a motel that has a room available. It was only like a 10 minute drive away. Very fortunate. Wouldn't want her Buying Temperature to die out.
We get to the parking lot of the motel and I tell her with a smirk, "Just because we're here doesn't necessarily mean that anything's going to happen. All I know is that I want to cuddle with you," to which she instantly replied with agreement. That's basically my LMR vaccine.
We stayed up all night and all morning. She completely drained my balls and I left the next morning with a hickey on my neck the size of Mississippi. I got no sleep, no more spunk in my junk, a huge-ass hickey, and I had to meet HB BarelyLegal
right after for a movie we both wanted to see.
I texted HB BarelyLegal
and explained the situation: that I had the biggest hickey ever and that I wouldn't be able to have sex with her when we met because I didn't sleep and my balls were drained. She was so understanding and we had a nice chill movie date with just making out in the theater. She's so fuckin sweet <3
I also still talk to HB Barista
and I'm getting the feeling that she's totally using me for my body but that's OK I guess.Other Notable Conversations:
Tinder match. We had scheduled to meet a certain day but we had to reschedule for a different day due to logistical problems. I know she would have come out to meet me if we could meet on the day we had originally planned, and I know she would have come out to meet me if I kept up the texting momentum between that day and the day we rescheduled for, but I didn't. That was my mistake. She flaked. Still a cool text exchange there, though, huh?
Breaking the language barrier:http://imgur.com/a/Uc3vD
Chinese TanTan match. One of the first girls I started talking to on any of these apps. That whole conversation happened all in the same day. She ended up being wayyyy too far away for me to even consider meeting just off the cuff but we made a great connection anyway and she sent me nudes that I totally whacked it to. I also learned that Chinese people apparently refer to their vaginas as their "little sister." Huh. We talked more after this and she sent me even more nudes later
Failed friend-zone attempt:
Tinder match. We met for only 1 short date so far and we're planning to meet again soon. Claims that she wasn't looking for anything but friends on Tinder. She's used to immediately friendzoning guys but I guess I'm pretty much immune to being friendzoned at this point. It's adorable how she's confusing herself