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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:20 am 
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I want to perfect this ish.

I really hate the stupid hi how are you type conversations when you run into someone.

What are better alternative ways to start those types of conversations?

Any advice on keeping things light, fun, and interesting?

For example, I'm at a get together last night and everyone has been drinking and this girl walks up to me. (we had a thing for each other before but we were both in relationships at the time) so we start some small talk but it dies after like 5 minutes. That shit is so lame.

I'm somewhat of a natural but i work so fucking much it takes a toll on my social life and the level of fun that i can be and I feel like I have to relearn some things.

and this is literally my biggest sticking point right now.

I'm fairly attractive, ambitious, I have balls, I have no problem going direct/sexual, but sometimes I just cant do simple small stalk shit. OR, I can't keep a conversation going and then it dies out.

Any advice on how to spontaneously come up with new convo material or keep the convo from dying?
any tips on storytelling etc?

Thank you guys in advance
(and sorry if this thread isn't in the right place)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:30 am 
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There's your problem. "Hi, how are you?" type shit should have been long gone by 5 mins. And believe it or not, I think your problem is your listening. At like 20 points in there the girl would have mentioned things to talk about, but you didn't catch them. A person will always tell you what to talk about, and by then they should be asking you questions.

You are also likely thinking about PUA and not actually engaging the person. If you ever think about what to say next, kick your own ass. None of your time should be spent waiting to speak. Not this early. You are talking, or u are listening, or you are in your head, distracted, nervous, boring, whatever. It's not an interesting experience of you for another person to have.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:49 pm 
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Hey mastermind, thanks for the post.

Just to be clear, I was using 5 minutes as an arbitrary measure. it could be 90 seconds, it could possibly be 4 or 5 minutes but i appreciate and understand what you're saying.

I'm gonna assume you mean 20 seconds not 20 points.
Right, I'm kind of bad at taking what they say and extending it into different conversation topics. So how do I improve that? How do I become better at quick, witty ways to take what they say and create fun engaging conversation from that.

I have to disagree about the PUA comment. I joined the community about 4 years ago, did it for a couple months, but it wasn't for me and I haven't read books,forums,blogs, or ran any type of pua-like-game since.

Idk if I'm in my head per se (as I definitely know what that feels like) but I just sometimes feel like I have nothing interesting to say. Talking about work is boring and gets old quick.

I need to rediscover what fun conversation topics are, how to keep the mood light and fun, how to take what they say and turn it into a fun topic, and how to transition into new topics. So how do I do that? or do you have any topics that are your go tos that have definitely worked for you in the past?

(obviously, what you find interesting might be completely different than what i find interesting but it would be a good start to know what fun conversation looks like)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:23 pm 
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No, I meant 20 points. They do it almost every time they open their mouth, and so do you. It's natural, normal.

The same reason you don't hear these is the reason you can't find anything to say (that is being in your head). You aren't hold these conversations like normal conversations. It's while you are figuring out what to say that you are missing when the girl tells you what to say next. The basic rule is that it doesn't matter what you talk about. Conversation with a new pretty girl is fun. You wanted to talk to her, and you are. Who cares about what? If you are bored 90 seconds in, then you are doing something much more fundamentally wrong than not picking topics you like. I posit that is not being in the moment and experiencing the simple joy of engaging the girl. That's what they want, and so do you ultimately. If you are engaged, then you SHOULD care about what their day was like or how they are. This is them telling you about their lives and how it makes them feel.

If you can't think of things to say, that is because you can't think of the RIGHT things to say. With friends or family you don't care, so you talk freely. That is normal, natural conversation. If you aren't doing that, then you are too worried about what she will think of or how she will respond to what you say. You aren't comfortable. You get comfortable by small talk, you know, the stuff you hate.

As for the topics I like, it's whatever gets the girl involved, interested and comfortable talking. I like that they are talking to me. So, generally, I sit and enjoy it. I'm relaxed and listening. In two sentences she could have dropped 5 hints about what to talk about, so I never have to think about it. If she had mentioned school, I'd say "school?". That's all. Not much to it. The point I'm making is that the problem you are facing is a common one where you are not actually there and fully engaged. You don't like to talk about work, what about the people there? The situations? If they like it and why or why not? How it makes them feel? I often as if being a [blank] is their goal in life, to which they most likely say no and then tell you what is. See, you don't like talking about work but it's one simple question away from talking about hopes and dreams and goals. If that's boring, then there is no helping you.

Topics I generally go to: none. It flows pretty freely. That comes from feeling calm and listening and knowing that chit chat is where your conversation starts. It's the open credits like for a movie. Maybe it's a bit boring at times, but it tells you what kind of movie you are in to see, where it might go but leaving plenty of room for mystery and unexpected turns. You need to find joy in the process.

Go out today and talk to strangers and listen for them to tell you what to talk about. Trust me, once you are trained to tune into that it will seem so easy and obvious. Look up "active listening", might help. Relax and just say whatever pops into your mind. If you are a cool, normal guy then it will be fine. Don't try to derail shit because you'd rather talk about birdwatching or video games, because it will seem unnatural and that you are trying too hard with are both true. Human beings have been talking to each other for hundreds of thousands of years. That's what we do. So do you, normally, so that means that there is something going on inside you head preventing you from acting normally.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:21 am 
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First of all, thank you for taking the time to write this. This is a gem of a post. I read this earlier and decided to follow the advice in here before replying.
I'll take it line by line.
Quote:
No, I meant 20 points. They do it almost every time they open their mouth, and so do you. It's natural, normal.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but what is/are a point(s)?
Quote:
The same reason you don't hear these is the reason you can't find anything to say (that is being in your head). You aren't hold these conversations like normal conversations. It's while you are figuring out what to say that you are missing when the girl tells you what to say next. The basic rule is that it doesn't matter what you talk about. Conversation with a new pretty girl is fun. You wanted to talk to her, and you are. Who cares about what?
So, anything? I feel like there is a line somewhere between good and bad/fun and boring conversation...and it's literally, (yes I was paying attention to it today) the first few seconds of running into someone where the first thought in my head is, what do I say? It's almost like I feel this pressure, like I am responsible for carrying the conversation and being entertaining. (not dancing monkey entertaining but most people in my life look at me as a leader. I know that may sound contradictictive since I'm here asking for advice on what seems like a basic skill --however, its only in certain situations where I become the conversational choke artist)
Quote:
. That's what they want, and so do you ultimately. If you are engaged, then you SHOULD care about what their day was like or how they are. This is them telling you about their lives and how it makes them feel.
So I can do this without it seeming like boring mundane talk? Because I tried this today and this girl seemed so surprised/excited to talk to me about her weekend (even though she didnt really do anything, she just was happy to share it with me)
Quote:
You aren't comfortable. You get comfortable by small talk, you know, the stuff you hate.
this right here. there is such a positive fucking correlation with how strong my game is and my comfort level its black and white. I can literally seem like two different people sometimes. If I'm not comfortable I'll get self conscious or start wondering what everyones opinion of me is. It gets me more in my head and then I start wondering how people are perceiving me etc etc. It's fucking weird bro.

On the other hand, when I'm comfortable, whether its with my friends and girls or just in an area where I'm getting all around positive vibes I'm like Dan Bilzerian. I don't get it. It's sooooo polar opposite but its true. I'd prefer to be Dan Bilzerian all the time. not just some of the time.
Quote:
As for the topics I like, it's whatever gets the girl involved, interested and comfortable talking. I like that they are talking to me. So, generally, I sit and enjoy it. I'm relaxed and listening. In two sentences she could have dropped 5 hints about what to talk about, so I never have to think about it. If she had mentioned school, I'd say "school?". That's all. Not much to it.
So what about in situations when she isn't dropping many hints? you make it sound so easy. Idk if I'm just overcomplicating conversation (highly likely as I am somewhat of a perfectionist) or if you're oversimplifying for argument's sake. either way, great point and I'll be sure to be more aware of this as the next couple days go on.
Quote:
You don't like to talk about work, what about the people there? The situations? If they like it and why or why not? How it makes them feel? I often as if being a [blank] is their goal in life, to which they most likely say no and then tell you what is. See, you don't like talking about work but it's one simple question away from talking about hopes and dreams and goals. If that's boring, then there is no helping you.
sorry, I realize I wasn't very clear about this. It's not that I dont like talking about work. It's that sometimes I get stuck only talking about work and I hate to be that boring guy who only talks about work. I try to always find a balance and so when I feel like the conversation has only been work-related I steer away from it and try not to come back to it for a while (or at least until we've covered some other areas, found some common ground etc.)

Quote:
Topics I generally go to: none. It flows pretty freely. That comes from feeling calm and listening and knowing that chit chat is where your conversation starts. It's the open credits like for a movie. Maybe it's a bit boring at times, but it tells you what kind of movie you are in to see, where it might go but leaving plenty of room for mystery and unexpected turns. You need to find joy in the process.
what about in the beginning, or have you always been a pretty good conversationalist? are there ever any go-to topics just in case the convo stalls or gets a little dry? or if you dont seeme to have much in common with the other person?
Quote:
Go out today and talk to strangers and listen for them to tell you what to talk about. Trust me, once you are trained to tune into that it will seem so easy and obvious. Look up "active listening", might help. Relax and just say whatever pops into your mind. If you are a cool, normal guy then it will be fine. Don't try to derail shit because you'd rather talk about birdwatching or video games, because it will seem unnatural and that you are trying too hard with are both true. Human beings have been talking to each other for hundreds of thousands of years. That's what we do. So do you, normally, so that means that there is something going on inside you head preventing you from acting normally.
did this today, it was kind of interesting seeing people's reactions when i was literally talking about the first thing that popped into my head. people didn't seem to mind following where the convo was headed even if it was in random directions.

Thanks again man, I appreciate it. I feel pretty lame because as I mentioned, I have most of the pieces of the puzzle in place, but soetimes my conversations are wack. i'm gonna continue to be aware of what goes on in my headd when first seeing someone, and how to change directions in conversations etc etc.

also, any tips on storytelling? I ordered, the art of storytelling by john walsh. if you have any other suggestions/advice please feel free. this is that one sticking point that is more like a pebble in a shoe more than anything. i feel like i do overcomplicate it, where I'm afraid to start with simple conversation because somewhere along the lines i learned it was bad or boring to do so. idk, i'm gonna keep working at it. I really just want to be an amazing storyteller and conversationalist. the rest of the stuff i already have in line.

cheers for sure bro


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:30 pm 
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Quote:
First of all, thank you for taking the time to write this. This is a gem of a post. I read this earlier and decided to follow the advice in here before replying.
I'll take it line by line.



1) Maybe I'm missing something here, but what is/are a point(s)?

2) So, anything?

3) So I can do this without it seeming like boring mundane talk? Because I tried this today and this girl seemed so surprised/excited to talk to me about her weekend (even though she didnt really do anything, she just was happy to share it with me)


4) On the other hand, when I'm comfortable, whether its with my friends and girls or just in an area where I'm getting all around positive vibes I'm like Dan Bilzerian. I don't get it. It's sooooo polar opposite but its true. I'd prefer to be Dan Bilzerian all the time. not just some of the time.


5) So what about in situations when she isn't dropping many hints? you make it sound so easy. Idk if I'm just overcomplicating conversation (highly likely as I am somewhat of a perfectionist) or if you're oversimplifying for argument's sake. either way, great point and I'll be sure to be more aware of this as the next couple days go on.

6) what about in the beginning, or have you always been a pretty good conversationalist? are there ever any go-to topics just in case the convo stalls or gets a little dry? or if you dont seeme to have much in common with the other person?


7) did this today, it was kind of interesting seeing people's reactions when i was literally talking about the first thing that popped into my head. people didn't seem to mind following where the convo was headed even if it was in random directions.

8) also, any tips on storytelling? I ordered, the art of storytelling by john walsh. if you have any other suggestions/advice please feel free. this is that one sticking point that is more like a pebble in a shoe more than anything. i feel like i do overcomplicate it, where I'm afraid to start with simple conversation because somewhere along the lines i learned it was bad or boring to do so. idk, i'm gonna keep working at it. I really just want to be an amazing storyteller and conversationalist. the rest of the stuff i already have in line.

cheers for sure bro

1) It's any time the mention something that wasn't already in the conversation. Their school, a friend, a place they went, a hobby. Just ask about it. This is also how girls qualify themselves, so if they are talking about cool places they lived, some modeling they did, etc... making them selves look good.

2) yes. It's not the topic at all, it's how you are talking about it.

3) it's just a matter of being interested

4) Happens to me to. You need to be aware of which state you are in. If you are in your head and shy, forget about pickup and just be friendly. That's the only tip I have there.

5) She may not like you or she may be shy and nervous with nothing to say. Experience and calibration are how you tell. Just being up some random thing or ask a question or tell a story, what ever is on your mind. If she responds, keep going. If she isn't interested, leave her alone and move on.

6) I've always been good at conversation, but only "friendly". When I got into PUA I started to suck at it, then I got better when I managed to calm down. That is the only trick. If you are calm, I bet you are good at conversation too, because you do it all your life. It isn't hard, it just takes some confidence building. Your stories are good enough and your jokes are funny enough, just don't give a fuck. Sounds easy, I know.

7) People don't because they don't have to worry about it, and if they find you interesting they will find what you like interesting.

8) Try to tell stories that are prompted by something the girl says. She says something that reminds you of a time or a guy you know, just say "I remember a time when..." or "I know a guy that...". If they respond and prompt you to continue, then continue. If she doesn't, may be mention it again then move on if they don't care. Don't tell a story they don't want to hear. And don't keep going if you see them get bored.

Other general tips would be to talk LOUD, really loud. Use big... HUGE hand gestures. Look exited, like it's the best fuck'n story in the world. I've never looked, but if story telling is a skill you want to develop, look on youtube for how to tell a story. It must be there. Not PUA videos, but general ones like how to read a story to kids, business communication, anything. Like I said, it must be there. See what experts know and rip them off.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:43 am 
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Awesome man, in your opinion what is/are the most important aspects to game? (If it isn't good conversation )


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:12 am 
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One thing I've noticed as I've gotten older, from observing people I know and even people from TV, movies, youtube, etc. They basically have a collection of personal experiences which they tell as stories, and they'll repeat them over and over again throughout their lives to anyone new who hasn't heard them. You'll start to roll your eyes after you hear them tell it for the third or fourth time, but I guarantee that person who is hearing it anew is enthralled. You just have to cultivate your own stories from your own life experiences and learn to tell them in an entertaining way.

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“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:44 pm 
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I'm sure I am not as experienced as some of these other guys, but the major thing that helped me was being in the right environment. I used to go to women's clothing stores or the street to open girls, and I will still open girls randomly if I see an attractive one. But I went from one minute pleasentries to really interesting conversations/ instadates from focuing my game on bookstores. I'm not suggesting you go to bookstores. What I am suggesting is thinking about the environment which YOU find stimulating. You may not be finding what you think is interesting because you are talking to girls who do not meet YOUR standards.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:57 pm 
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Another good thing to do is assumption build. Assume the girls already have the qualities you're looking for, say "you seem like the type that's x, or you seem like you x, y, z." Not only will you be able to next them quicker, and find the girl(s) that's right for you, you'll get out of your head because you'll be too interested to care about impressing them.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:09 pm 
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I like to carry on conversations from one group to the next. If I'm having a good convo with one set, I'll strike up the same topic with another and just carry it on. You can even use it as an opener - "See her over there? She was just telling me about..."

It works well, and it keeps the energy flowing.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:43 pm 
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just watch Russell brand


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