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 Post subject: Natural or nothing
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:16 pm 
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I've been thinking about where pick up is headed and undoubtedly natural is the way to go.
To me it seems like all anyone ever needed from the pick up community was to learn how to be a man and to have core confidence and to learn to be the best self possible.
Preprepared routines were never going to cut it especially once word got out. The heyday of Style etc is over although i'm sure they will continue to get success.
But it was never going to be a long term thing. The Mystery Method is all but dead in my eyes. It's always been the case that there'd be a saturation point with the material, there's only so much routine to go around especially when everyones copying. Negging, peacocking, dhv's - seriously past their sell by date.

Rehearsing material is just wack anyway. What woman wants to be picked up by some guy who has displayed zero of his own personality and has simply mimmicked the personality and attributes of someone else. Once and if it gets to the first date stage she'll soon figure out he's not congruent with his initial approach and will blow him off.
That's not to say that stuff like the cube or the 5 questions game isn't cool, that's a game not a part of your personality.

Anyone who's watched RSD material will see what direction they've taken their seminars in. It's all about being natural and yourself. You may need the tools to get there but in the end you'll not need any routines. Besides guys have been hooking up with girls for millenia without it so why the sudden need for pick up material?

The pick up community to me is about self improvement which just so happens to vastly increase success with women which is fantastic. If you don't improve yourself and you're not attracting women then learning routines to try and patch holes in your identity is only going to hold out for so long.
Things like David DeAngelo's Deep Inner Game in which he gets Dr.Paul to assist with psychological illustrations is the kind of material that i think will get results in the long term as it's about wholesale change to your self not just some lines.

Anyway i just wanted to air my thoughts on this subject. discuss...

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Looking to meet up with people in Scotland to get my PUA skills on the go.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:21 pm 
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this is an excellent post, and you are right about a lot of things. this is why, for one thing, i avoid the canned material and routine bullshit. if it works for some ppl, great, but not only is it probably more stressful to sift through all that shit people floated out there to find something to use, but unless it is something from your own mind chances are it has been used.

the analogy to pickup via the mystery method and that other bs is basically akin to a house of cards, similar to what the original author got at. yeah, maybe you are not attractive but your pickup skills got you in bed with a model. awesome, but maybe you had to create such an illusion to even get in that situation that there is virtually no possibility of it ever going further than that. some of you might be thinking "whatever, ill move on with the next girl." yeah that attitude is fine sometimes but it is also bs. when you meet, and especially get to sleep with really hot girls, you want to see them again most of the time under normal circumstances.

so if you had to go so far out of your way and be someone else to seduce her, you have just built whatever connection you two had out of a lie. sooner or later, it will fall apart. im not saying that the goal of a "pickup" isnt necessarily to do whatever it takes aka "the end justifies the means" but you have to be a TRUE person to improve yourself. that should be the real goal for pickup artistry - making yourself better.

also, a key aspect of natural game is the ability to adapt, to think on your feet, to be loose and easy. if our brains stored information like computers and we had a whole library of lines and situations and stuff to draw from, then practiced stuff might make more sense. just be confident in who you are and say whatever you want to say.

with all that said, i do think there will still be a point to reading about pick up. hell, even from time to time i read lines that i might take note of, or things that i think of myself that i like.

but, i cannot stress this enough... the best thing some of you can do for yourselves is to think really hard about certain situations and what YOU would say or do. maybe take note of these things. this is a better exercise than reading what someone else did or said and trying to mimic that without really giving it thought.

my 2 cents

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:55 pm 
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Well personally i think if you aint a natural then pickup aint gonna work for you. You can learn all the routines in the world but when you are faced with a unique scenario then you aren't going to know what to do.

Natural or bust


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:55 pm 
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I think the point of PUA and learning routines is for guys who are clueless, like I was. I WAS a natural when I was young, believe it or not.. When I was in grade 7 i had 4 GIRLFRIENDS at the same time, and didn't even know it. I couldn't even understand why they all suddenly got mad at me once they found out about each other! And yet, I didn't even give a shit! Then I turned MEGA SUPER AFC in highschool, and have had to relearn everything.

Everyone wants to be a natural, and if you ask me, this is one way of getting there.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:32 pm 
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Quote:
this is an excellent post, and you are right about a lot of things. this is why, for one thing, i avoid the canned material and routine bullshit. if it works for some ppl, great, but not only is it probably more stressful to sift through all that shit people floated out there to find something to use, but unless it is something from your own mind chances are it has been used.

the analogy to pickup via the mystery method and that other bs is basically akin to a house of cards, similar to what the original author got at. yeah, maybe you are not attractive but your pickup skills got you in bed with a model. awesome, but maybe you had to create such an illusion to even get in that situation that there is virtually no possibility of it ever going further than that. some of you might be thinking "whatever, ill move on with the next girl." yeah that attitude is fine sometimes but it is also bs. when you meet, and especially get to sleep with really hot girls, you want to see them again most of the time under normal circumstances.

so if you had to go so far out of your way and be someone else to seduce her, you have just built whatever connection you two had out of a lie. sooner or later, it will fall apart. im not saying that the goal of a "pickup" isnt necessarily to do whatever it takes aka "the end justifies the means" but you have to be a TRUE person to improve yourself. that should be the real goal for pickup artistry - making yourself better.

also, a key aspect of natural game is the ability to adapt, to think on your feet, to be loose and easy. if our brains stored information like computers and we had a whole library of lines and situations and stuff to draw from, then practiced stuff might make more sense. just be confident in who you are and say whatever you want to say.

with all that said, i do think there will still be a point to reading about pick up. hell, even from time to time i read lines that i might take note of, or things that i think of myself that i like.

but, i cannot stress this enough... the best thing some of you can do for yourselves is to think really hard about certain situations and what YOU would say or do. maybe take note of these things. this is a better exercise than reading what someone else did or said and trying to mimic that without really giving it thought.

my 2 cents
I'm new to this and you make a good point, BUT. I just started reading neil's book and watching his videos. He doesn't tell you to lie one bit. He gives you stories and little fun games to be interesting, but he tells you to be yourself and tell the truth.

I think he said "Be your BEST self"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:09 am 
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ive been doing pua shit for about 4 years now several lay's from gaming several girfriends from gaming... i have always been a natural, but i have to disagree with your post reading through the material helps form concepts and there is always room for improvement, and with something that can be as complicated as the game theres just know way to remember every little detail that could really take you from a number close to a fuck close. i hardly used canned anything but i save them because unfotunatly not every night am i on my A game i have just found this to be the way things are. (hell i think even with all of mysteries knowlage of the game if you removed his fame he would probably still have off nights every once and awhile where he didnt close with the target of his choice not saying he wouldnt get 2nd best but still all the same.) when i say hardly that doesnt meen ever though i cant tell you how many times ive had a conversation drop at a party and couldnt think of anything to talk about and dropped a canned line or two and got the ball rolling again.

i personally think one of my biggest success with the game is having a huge arsenal of routs i can really drive them where i want them to be. in bed with me.

all is fair in love in war :P ill take as big of an advantage as i can and blend my style..


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:53 am 
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if natural game is all about NOT using routines, canned openers etc. would you class yourself as a natural if you have your own routine DHV stories that have occurred in your life? Your own cocky and witty lines that YOU came up with and just generally enjoy using? If so, youre a natural.

i have plenty of stories i will tell to new friends that i make..and they will tell me their's too. telling these to girls I meet is no different. so if im telling my 'routine' stories to most girls that i meet...im still natural...as these are the stories i would tell to just about anyone to have good conversation. they come from my experiences in my life...its the real me, to the very core.

One cannot deny the fact that natural game contains most of the concepts in the PU community (freeze outs, push/pull, DHVing etc etc)...the only difference is that youre using those techniques while IMPROVISING (or using your OWN material) rather than spewing out canned lines from books/forums. The pick-up community is simply a like-minded group that structures these attraction triggers and concepts in a systematic way.

The bottom line? most of us have more natural game than we think...i believe people 'box' the whole natural game thing way too stringently. ie. dude if you use push/pull techniques youre not a natural man because you learnt it from the PU community...bullshit, this is natural human behavior that naturally occurs when flirting with a member of the opposite sex. its nothing new to our race!

There are 2 'types' of naturals IMO...

- those that never needed to educate themselves on how to be better with women....they naturally just 'get it'.

- those that needed to learn the concepts such as freeze outs, push/pull, DHVing etc but will STILL use their own original material.

So...if youre not using any MATERIAL from mystery,style or any other so-called guru...youre a natural my friend.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:44 pm 
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I love this topic. It's why I wrote the article "Natural Game Nazi's" on this forum are-you-a-natural-game-nazi--vp261872.h ... azi#261872

Although I consider my personal game very Natural I actually use, and TEACH...drumroll please...magic tricks. And I've been known to create some of the craziest gimmicks as well.

Here's the thing. What works for you may not work for other guys. And who gets the job of defining a Natural anyway?

To me...doing what comes naturally and easily is a "natural." I mentioned magic. If you're the type of guy who doesn't mind holding a girl's attention and performing to a degree...that's "natural" for you. Do you think Mystery learned magic tricks FOR pick up? nope. It was part of who he is and used it naturally in his game. Likewise.

The funniest part is all the elitist views against anything that could be considered routine is very myopic.

Knowing HOW to inject routines, gimmicks, games, etc, doesn't mean you have to RELY on them. The guys who can use them typically have a much bigger advantage than those who CAN'T.

True, the robotic allegiance to using nothing but canned routines and gimmicks without injecting your own personality won't last long. Where it usually leads is to guys who think it just doesn't work in the first place so they end up bashing the methods...only because they failed at it.

(No, I'm not pointing fingers here...but it's true.)

Don't hate on other styles. It may be a routine or a magic trick or a paper sign* that got some guy out of his shell and gave him the confidence in the first place to realize that "women aren't that freaking scary" in the first place.

That's just my opinion...you're welcome to bash it, ignore it, or understand it.

_________________
Have You Seen The Hiroshima Opener Technique?
http://pumaskills.com/at/go.php?c=pickupartistforumhiro
Or magic tricks for pick up artists?
http://pumaskills.com/at/go.php?c=pickupartistforum


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