Frame Control, Defining Reality, and Being High-Value


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:35 pm 
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Wow.

I love your thoughts on ego and the concept of emotional vibing.

Goes to show just when you think you have this life pinned, someone else can go and open the door to a whole new perspective!

Congrats man! :D


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:22 pm 
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Swoop wrote:
This is really good stuff man. Keep it coming! You mentioned Tolle like two or three times.. Can you give us peeps more on your take regarding ego-dissolving? Issues you overcame that some of us probably deal with? Techniques for discovering importance? I know you touched on it, but I'd be interested on a deeper perspective! thanks for your insight too


Tolle explains everything better than I do. I've got to recommend that you just read Power of Now, or better yet, buy the audio book (it's not expensive, and you can get it at Borders or Barnes and Noble or wherever), rip it onto an mp3 player and DO THE MEDITATION EXERCISES. Take a walk around a park with Tolle playing. Shit's tight.

Very quickly, you start to realize that a lot of the things you fear in your life - not just pickup related - actually don't matter. Things you think will hurt you don't. You realize that getting angry is a waste of time and energy. If you're pissed, either remove yourself from the stimulus, fix the problem, or just forget about it.

But I'm not going to go too deeply into dissolving the ego. That's Ecky's territory.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:41 am 
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Word. I'll check it out. Thanks. I love when Tolle laughs at his jokes; its like he's having an asthmatic seizure for 2 seconds, or like when you get the wind knocked out of you and you need air... anyways i digress

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:53 pm 
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I actually had the tony robbins audio on my old ipod touch before I got a new one So I'm familiar with the ten day challenge but I never took the time to try it but found it interesting. YOu say something about if you think negative thoughts you have to change them before two minutes pass.

And I realized that I end up thinking negative thoughts a lot, Mainly when I'm at work cause I work by myself and just have my headphones on and I could be in a good mood thinking about the weekend but like a negative thought might pop up and it completely changes the state I'm in. And I sometimes find myself pissed about ridiculous shit, I can't do anything about. How can I feel better and get that off my mind.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:34 pm 
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Sprks wrote:
I actually had the tony robbins audio on my old ipod touch before I got a new one So I'm familiar with the ten day challenge but I never took the time to try it but found it interesting. YOu say something about if you think negative thoughts you have to change them before two minutes pass.

And I realized that I end up thinking negative thoughts a lot, Mainly when I'm at work cause I work by myself and just have my headphones on and I could be in a good mood thinking about the weekend but like a negative thought might pop up and it completely changes the state I'm in. And I sometimes find myself pissed about ridiculous shit, I can't do anything about. How can I feel better and get that off my mind.


Realize that the thought is there, and observe it. Don't judge it; just observe it. Then let it fade away.

Seriously, though, Tolle.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:00 pm 
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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER

I'm not done with this crazy inner game extravaganza quite yet. But for now, I'd like to summarize everything I've gone over so far, and the best way to do that is with an LR. This was my first lay of 2008; it was back at the end of January. I'm using this one because it was a very simple lay. No obstacle issues, no congruence tests to speak of, just 1-2-3 go. One hour and fifteen minutes from open to isolation, followed by half an hour of foreplay before sex.

Hell, I didn't even have to open.

The lay wasn't particularly "impressive" (not that I give a shit, and neither should you if you sleep with a girl with no problems), in large part because the girl hadn't gotten laid in six months at the time. Ultimately, all I had to do was escalate intelligently and not fuck up.

Oh, and I posted an LR of this interaction on another board, but I didn't get heavily technical with it. I'm gonna break it down a bit more for you guys.

STORMY'S FIRST LAY OF 2008

Our story takes place at a house party. Present are myself, a couple of people I don't know, and a bunch of people I do know, including my "final ex" (the one whose dumpage of me got me into pickup).

I showed up at the party with a six-pack of Turbodog and a six-pack of Purple Haze in tow. Mmm, Abita. I drop that in the fridge, and then start running around talking to people.

One of the people there, as I mentioned, was my Final Ex. Friendly hug action. My state survives. I'm still in party mode. Hells yes.

If I had run into her a few months prior, my sugar-glass inner game would have shattered. I had been avoiding her ever since she dumped me in May of 2007, because I was miserable every time I saw her.

Not this time, though. It was party time.

There were three hotties at this party: Final Ex, Sociable, and Skirt. Final Ex was my ex, fresh off of a breakup with the guy she dumped me for, to whom I will refer as BiGuy because he's bisexual. Sociable was a cute nerdy girl who was really friendly with everyone and smiling all the time. Both of them had skinny, "maiden" figures.

And then there was Skirt.

Skirt has the body of a pornstar (EDIT: and now that I think about it, the pornstar that she had the body of was Eva Evangelina). Hourglass figure, full bust and hips, beautiful face, tight abs, the works. She was wearing a schoolgirl skirt, fishnet stockings, and a button-down blouse. She was easily the hottest girl at this party. Hell, she'd be the hottest girl at any given club she went to.

As such, none of the guys there were hitting on her. Approach anxiety is a gift to me from other men.

I don't want to hate on my friends here, but none of them have any game to speak of. The only two exceptions were my buddy Justin, whom I had gotten into pickup a while prior and is currently a Sinn devotee, and BiGuy, a natural who also happens to be bisexual. Seriously, I think BiGuy is only bisexual because it means five percent more nookie than being straight. This guy is a huge hornball.

Neither of these guys would end up causing me problems. Justin wasn't really trying to get laid that night, and BiGuy was following Final Ex around like a broken puppy, trying for some post-breakup sex. His state was in the toilet and he wasn't after my target anyway.

Social circle game is awesome. Automatic social proof, AND I can figure out, with only a minimum of effort, which girls are single.

Final Ex was right out. My inner game was doing great; I didn't want to fuck that up by gaming her. And I didn't want to deal with BiGuy.

Sociable might have had a boyfriend, I don't know. It was hard to tell at the time because of how flirty she was with all the guys she talked to. That should have tipped me off that she was single (she was, and BiGuy started dating her soon thereafter), but whatever.

Skirt didn't seem to be attached to any guys. Not that I could tell; she was mostly hanging out with other girls that night. Occasionally, she'd talk to a guy she knew.

But I hadn't really begun the "gaming" phase of my night yet. I was talking to my friends, really loudly, and having fun. Animated storytelling, drinking contests, yeee-ha!

As I was talking to Justin, I felt a hand reach around my waist and hold me by the hip. Whoever was doing that was standing on my right. I looked over to see who it was.

Skirt.

Claw.

Continue talking to Justin.

Once I had finished whatever I was saying, I turned to Skirt.

Me: "Hey."
Skirt: "Hey."

That was the opener.

Let's stop for a second. Why did I get opened? It was because I was having more fun than any other guy at that party. No nervousness. I wasn't trying to impress anyone. I was talking to everyone, animated, having a great time, and generally the social center of the kitchen, which was the fulcrum about which the entire party moved due both to it being a chokepoint between the front room and the back yard (so people moving between them would have to go through there), and also because that's where the booze was, so people were making trips there regularly.

I got to be the social center of the kitchen by being the guy that was having the most fun. Any of you who have seen Blueprint know the pool analogy: I was warming up my part of the pool with my happiness and positivity and fun, and the girls were swimming towards that.

Now the "game" portion of the night begins in earnest.

I shift from side-by-side Claw position to facing Skirt directly. Hands go around her waist and interlock behind her back. Eye contact full-on. Friendly smile. Bedroom voice.

Less than ten seconds after she put her hand around my waist.

From here on out, I have to generalize about what happened because I don't remember much of what happened, for two reasons: one, I was drunk, and two, I wasn't trying to remember any of what happened. I was totally in the Now. Remember waaaaaay back when I was talking about girls wanting you to be in the Now? Wanting you wanting them, FOR them? That's where I was. But I can give you all some highlights.

The "game" portion was one big push-pull cycle with Skirt. But this wasn't push-pull in the sense of "I like you, no I don't." HELL no. Stormy don't play that weaksauce vibe. I fucking desired this girl, and I wasn't going to hide it. It was push-pull between "I am going to throw you on the counter and fuck you right now, wait no I'm not let's get to know each other first." The subtext of this interaction was that we were going to fuck. It wasn't a matter of whether, it was a matter of WHEN. The idea behind that was to keep the sexual tension going and diffuse ASD. I didn't know how high her ASD threshold was, so I had to do some token rapport-building. The fact that she was getting drunker certainly didn't hurt.

How did I shift back and forth between "comfort" and "seduction?" (Fuck "attraction," by the way. I don't have an "attraction phase," and neither should you. I assume attraction. The interaction goes Open -> Pump BT/diffuse ASD -> Close, with only as much of step 2 as I judge necessary. You game a girl to CLOSE.) The answer:

Shock and Awe. If you don't know about it, read about it here -> shock-and-awe-technique-by-ciaran-not-apocalypse-opener-vt84634.html . "What the hell, you're just entirely too hot. No. This is no good." While physically escalating. Then pull back. "No. Stop. Bad Stormy. I have to get to know you first."

Shock and Awe is only incongruent if you don't have the desire. If you have the desire, you're not hiding it, so it's not incongruent. You're just straining against it. And you're making it obvious. Shock and Awe demonstrates that you aren't afraid to show your desire, but you're socially calibrated enough not to do something to make the girl feel like a slut. You want her to be comfortable.

Kino. Kino kino kino kino kino kino kino kino kino kino kino. Also, kino. "Verbal game" is so, like, whatever. This game is emotional, not logical. And nothing jump-starts emotions like physical touch. Running verbal game with no kino is like trying to fly a jetliner that has four perfectly good jet engines using a rubber band engine. I mean, yeah, it's theoretically possible, but what's the point? Pickup is kino escalation, guys.

The Peck Takeaway. This is something that I had devised the night before when I was out sarging with Chief and a few of the Lair dudes. It's a way to prime a girl for a kiss-close. Whatcha do is, you do a takeaway, but peck the girl on the lips before you go. No tongue, no waiting for compliance. "Hey, I gotta hit the bathroom, I'll be right back." Peck on the lips, go do your thing, come back. There is no social pressure on the girl because this is rather light kino, and in the South, it's an acceptable familiar greeting. And you didn't give the girl a chance to cheek you. But you've still broken the "kiss barrier."

After that, pick a point in time and go for the makeout. It doesn't matter when. I did it in the middle of a sentence. She was talking to me, saying something, and suddenly her mouth was full of my tongue. Totally congruent because it fit in with the vibe I had been running all night. Then cut it off yourself. Don't let her end it. You end it before she does.

Why?

Because you don't want her ASD to kick in.

To get around that, it's extraction time.

Me: "Hey, let's go for a walk."
Her: "Where?"
Me: "My car. Making out in front of everyone like this is rude."
Her: "Heh. Okay."
Me: "We're just going to make out, though. No sex, young lady."

An hour and fifteen minutes after the opener, we were in my car, messing around.

I took my time with this part. No urgency. I was having a BLAST messing around with this girl. She was hot as all fuck, and my mind stayed right there in that car with the two of us. This is why I got into the game, goddammit. So I could be right there, in that moment.

Like this, but with pleasure instead of pain:



Every moment is the greatest moment of your life. Don't be off somewhere, missing it.

After half an hour of foreplay and steady escalation (all the way to some of the best oral sex ever)... no rush... I pulled a condom out of my center console.

Her: "I thought you said no sex."
Me: "I lied."

Fade to black.

She asked me afterwards whether this would be a one-night stand.

Me: "It doesn't have to be."

And I was serious. I wanted to see her again.

Unfortunately, it turned out that she lived forty-five minutes away from me. I put up with that while I was dating Final Ex, and didn't want to repeat it. Skirt is now dating the host of that party. They're happy together, and I'm happy for them.

When we went back in together, everyone was wondering where we had gone. I didn't say a word. I didn't fuck her to brag about it and make her feel like a slut. I did it because I wanted to. She ended up telling Final Ex after Final Ex pulled her into the bathroom for Girl Talk, but that was it.

So that's how it went down. No tricks, no manipulation. I used Shock and Awe heavily because I was congruent with it. Shock and Awe is a matter of telling a girl you want to fuck her, but pulling back because you don't want her to feel like a slut.

That's exactly what I was feeling, and that's exactly what I was doing.

So now you've read about natural game in action. It's Saturday, guys. Go out tonight make some some girl's year.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:37 am 
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Wow dude. Before I got into pick up, I did nothing but direct game because thats all I knew. You sack up and go for it. Worked fine as far as I was concerned. Then this random dude I was chillen with at a bar mention fastseduction (over three years ago, had just turned 21). Thought I'd check it out. Learned all the acronyms, patterns, routines, games. All worked good, but it just took my game into a new direction, not necessarily a better one.

Its always been consistent no problem, 7s, 8s, occasional 9s, and 10s, but I have forgotten my roots I feel, so to speak. Its not about head games, or code-cracking; saying and doing the perfect things in a particular order to get the girl. Its about go after the girl you truly desire; not the socially agreed upon hottie, or the girl you know you could lay... but the hottie you want personally. Props dude.

This has been a great thread so far. Thanks. S+A will see implementation, no doubt.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:35 am 
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the op sounds like owen cook in disguise :lol: but i don't care, cuz this is best thread i've ever read 8)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:19 am 
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Waaa... I love this thread man!! Props for posting all of this..

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:47 pm 
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str8 slootin wrote:
the op sounds like owen cook in disguise :lol: but i don't care, cuz this is best thread i've ever read 8)


Yep, representin' them RSD roots. 8) And I think I read more like Alex or Tim than Tyler.

Untouchable3 wrote:
Waaa... I love this thread man!! Props for posting all of this..


No problem. I have trains of thoughts like this every once in a while, and I thought it would be a good idea to post them somewhere. Not just for other dudes to read, but for me to look at every once in a while.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:00 am 
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ATTRACTIVENESS AND BLOWOUTS

Everyone gets blown out. From the A-est of FCs to the most M-ful of PUAs, everyone gets blown out. It doesn't matter what kind of opener you're using. There will be girls that don't like you. There will be girls that are having a lousy night, who aren't in a good mood, who don't want to look like a slut by letting some guy game them in front of their friends, or who otherwise just don't feel like getting hit on.

There is no point in your progression when you will stop getting blown out. It will never end. You will always be at the "risk" of getting blown out.

The good news is, there is no need to fear rejection. And I don't just mean that in the sense of "you'll still be alive if you get rejected the next day, approach anxiety is an evolutionary defense mechanism that evolved because we used to live in 50-person societies," or anything along those lines.

No.

What I mean is, rejection has a purpose. And that purpose is advantageous to you. Or at least it can be, if you look at it in the right way.

WHY REJECTION (OR AT LEAST, THE RISK OF IT) IS GOOD

If there were no risk of rejection, guys would just approach non-stop. And as such, one of the things that makes you attractive would become meaningless: balls.

Remember back when I talked about balls and vibe? Girls like guys that are willing to do scary things. They respect a guy that doesn't show fear. They want a guy that will maintain his frame in the face of adversity. This is why "extreme sports" guys tend to get laid a lot. Hell, this is why guys are attracted to dangerous and ultimately pointless activities in the first place: guys who did dangerous shit back in the day and survived were attractive to girls by their demonstrations of fearlessness, and got to reproduce. So guys with mental predispositions towards risk-taking passed that thrill-seeking gene down, and modern guys do things like jump over the Grand Canyon and eat goldfish because their genes tell them to, because those genes helped guys to reproduce.

An approach is no different.

When you approach a girl, she knows that she can reject you if she wants. She might arbitrarily do so as a congruence test. She knows that every other girl on the face of the planet can reject you. She knows about the "risks" that guys take when they roll up on a girl, and she knows that only a few guys in the venue have approached her that night. She won't get hit on by every guy there. She'll only get hit on by the guys that have the balls to go up and talk to her.

Approach anxiety is the gatekeeper. It's what separates the men from the boys.

Guys who are willing to put themselves on the line and put a move on a girl take the risk. They jump the canyon. They wrestle the alligator.

They demonstrate one of two things by approaching: that they're willing to plow through their own fear and take a risk, or that they simply don't HAVE any fear.

Either one is good. The second is better than the first, but they're both good.

As long as the possibility of rejection exists, guys will attempt to protect their egos by not approaching. So the guys with the ego problems will chode about and not approach... while the guys who power through their AA and eventually discard it as it proves itself unnecessary demonstrate their courage.

The risk of rejection raises the contrast between the chumps and the champs.

It makes you look that much better in comparison when you actually roll up and make your move.

When you get blown out - and you WILL get blown out, no matter how good you are - know that it only happened because it HAS to happen a certain percentage of the time. Know that what happened is the female population collectively reminding you that you CAN get blown out... to see if you'll keep going. They just want to remind you of the risk to see if you're willing to keep taking it.

As long as it's still possible for you to get blown out, your approaches are that much ballsier, and you gain that much more attraction when you do one. If girls didn't reject guys, then it wouldn't take any balls to approach and that entire category of your personality that makes you attractive would be rendered meaningless.

So next time you get rejected, don't let it damage your self-image. Letting it get to you would put you back in the chump category. Even though it may seem that girls are mean to you in an effort to mess up your self-esteem, they're actually doing it TO SEE IF it will mess up your self-esteem.

It's all part of the game.

It's not personal.

SO WHAT DO I DO WHEN I GET BLOWN OUT?

I don't plow through harsh rejections that happen within the first few seconds. Those girls just aren't worth it. Maybe they're testing me, maybe they actually don't want to talk to me... I don't care. I have no desire to plow through that. Why bother? There are other hot girls ten feet away. Why bother running damage control with this one?

So I shrug my shoulders, tell her it was nice meeting her, and move on, state intact.

Internally, I realize that that rejection had a purpose. Its purpose was to keep things scary for the AFCs. It's part of an unconscious collective effort on the part of all girl-kind to weed out the wusses by justifying their approach anxiety. There's nothing personal in it. It's totally random.

And even though I'm not particularly happy that it happened to me, I'm still happy that guys are getting rejected. The fact that rejection happens enables me to distinguish myself from everyone else by approaching anyway.

I hold no ill regard towards the girl that rejected me. Her number was up to do a rejection that night, to sacrifice the sexings she may have gotten in order to keep the bright line between chump and champ nice and bright and thick. She took one (or rather, DIDN'T take one) for the team.

I've almost got to feel sorry for her.

In terms of my self-worth, it's no different than being selected for a random baggage check at the airport. The FAA does that to scare off terrorists, and girl-kind rejects guys to scare off wusses. The baggage check doesn't mean anything to me because I'm not a terrorist, and the rejection doesn't mean anything to me because I'm not a wuss.

Rejection isn't personal.

It's all part of the game.

The more you get rejected, the more you get laid.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:29 am 
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JUST THOUGHT OF THIS... AN EXAMPLE!

This scenario didn't involve a rejection. It involved me standing up to an AMOG. Two, actually. This is an FR X-posted from another board. And keep in mind, this FR, in its entirety, is NOT a good example of how to pick up. I'm just posting it to illustrate a point.

Quote:
I started out in Fat City to watch Resurrection Man play. Twas pretty awesome. Went to the Quarter, did some unstifling in Pravda, walked to the Dungeon, it was a sausage factory, walked to Bourbon and started doing warmups.

Then I got opened.

Some girl grabbed me around the waist and started talking to me. CLAW DEPLOYED. Then I feel another hand grab my Claw and remove it from the girl.

The owner of the hand that grabbed mine is some guy with spiky hair and a pink button-down shirt who's trying way too hard to look intimidating to actually be intimidating.

I've got a theory about guys who 1) wear pink shirts, 2) aren't gay, and 3) walk around with a "tough guy" attitude. I think that's a sign of a serious ego problem. See, by wearing a pink shirt, you're inviting people to make fun of you. And when you walk around with that "tough guy" look, you're communicating that you're willing to fight at the drop of a hat. So any guy who walks around with a "tough guy" look while wearing a pink shirt is basically daring the entire world to pick a fight with him. Of course, nobody's going to, because most people don't walk around picking fights; they just walk around with fantasies of people picking fights with them playing in their heads. Nobody actually wants to throw the first punch. Because of this, the pink-shirted chode reassures himself that he's a super tough guy because nobody will pick a fight with him. Pretty sad, really.

Pink Shirt Guy: "Get out of here. Now."
Me: claw redeployed "No."
Girl: "Oh, come on! Let him stay! He's fun!" (my nimbus was, in fact, blazing when I first got opened by this girl. Which was why she opened me)


I have absolutely no doubt that this wouldn't have happened if I had shown any fear to that AMOG. If I had demonstrated wussiness, the girl wouldn't have tried to keep me in.

Now that I think about it, the girl was probably congruence-testing the other guys in her set to see what they'd do if another guy were talking to her. I was just a vehicle for her to do that... but she got more than she bargained for with me.

Quote:
Pink Shirt Guy: (steps forward) "Get the fuck out of here, right now."

You joke. You fucking bitch.

To any newbies reading this: what I was doing in this situation was the WRONG THING TO DO, just so you know. I should have shrugged my shoulders when he told me to leave, said "okay," and pulled his girlfriend. But Uncle Stormy's ego was in the driver's seat as soon as his Claw was challenged. I wanted to humiliate this guy. I wanted him to keep threatening me, while his girlfriend and I had our arms around each other, and have as many people as possible watch him not do shit about it. Because I knew he wouldn't.


Seriously, he wouldn't. I knew that and didn't fear him.

Quote:
I know guys who will actually throw the first punch. They fall into three categories. The first category is bouncer-types who can actually fight, know when a confrontation has passed the point of no return so they'll have to defend themselves (usually because the other guy says something about going to get a weapon), and keep themselves in control, doing only as much damage as is necessary to defuse the situation. The second category is the true "thug," whose life is more or less in the toilet, who has nothing to lose, who's served a few prison sentences, and picks fights with other guys to feel some sense of significance. The third category is Jeffy.

This guy was none of the above. All of his clothing was probably either from Abercrombie or Hollister. He looked about college age, and judging by his build, was probably an athlete. No bruises, scars, or cuts on his face. Well-groomed. And he was obviously putting effort into trying to intimidate me. Wide eyes, puffing his chest, raising his voice, but nonetheless keeping his distance so he could make a show out of moving towards me. This fucker had probably never seen a bar fight, let alone been in one. I don't think he'd ever seen the inside of a jail cell, either.

Plus, we were outside of 544 Bourbon and there were bouncers right nearby. This prep was too smart to throw a punch. He wasn't used to confrontations like this actually going to blows. He was used to some posturing, some yelling, some threats, and the confrontation eventually losing momentum and drifting apart, and then both sides nonetheless telling people later that they "got into a fight." And that's what I intended to give him, except I wouldn't be threatening anyone. I knew he wasn't going to punch, and I knew I wasn't going to punch. I was just going to let him embarrass himself.


Yeah... I should have been isolating here. Like I said, my ego was in the driver's seat, trying out its newfound powers.

Quote:
A second guy in a pink shirt came up alongside the first. This guy was trying to give me "crazy eyes" or something.

Second guy: "Man, get the fuck out of here, right now."

Creative bunch, aren't they?

Me: "Naaah, that's alright." (reinforce Claw)


At no point did the girl react to the EXTREMELY NEGATIVE SOCIAL PROOF by blowing me out. She actually got closer to me. I was demonstrating that I was not afraid of these guys. And this is the point of this FR: by maintaining my state in what would be a scary situation for someone else, I demonstrated courage and built attraction.

Quote:
Then the confrontation came to and end. One of their buddies, this metalhead dude with tattoos all over his neck and stretched-out earlobes, came up next to me.

Metalhead: "Hey, man, my friends are kind of drunk and they're upset about something. Look, I don't want them to get hurt or get into trouble tonight. Please do me a favor and just walk away."

Aww, fuck! Leave it to the metalhead to be the rational one who can actually hold his liquor. I can't argue with that, at all. He wasn't being a douche, he wasn't tooling me, he was just trying to defuse a pointless and stupid situation just in case it actually did get bad.

Me: "Alright." Stormy away.


Sometimes it's just not worth it.

Quote:
The rest of my time in the Quarter didn't go that well. I had trouble going from unreactive anti-WAMOG (Wannabe Alpha Male of Group; I just came up with that term all by myself) state back into WOOOOOOOO! state, and it showed. Blowout. Blowout. Blowout. Blowout. Blowout. Blowout. Blowout. Blowout. Fuck this, Stormy out.


Like I said, this FR was not, by and large, an example of what to do over the course of the night. Those WAMOGs had affected me. They didn't scare me, so it didn't hurt me in that set, but I was pissed off and looking for a fight for the rest of the night, and the vibe showed, which was why I kept getting blown out. Girls don't want to talk to guys who are obviously pissed about something. Those guys' egos are front and center. MY ego was front and center. And I paid the price for letting my state get affected that night.

Ultimately, though, no big deal. Lesson learned. There'll be other nights.

_________________
http://www.makeherchaseyou.com/ <- Free 10-Day Bootcamp from Herbal
http://www.bristollair.com/outer-game/s ... ibing.html <- Tyler Durden on Vibing
frame-control-defining-reality-and-bei-vt34530.html


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:31 am 
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dude, i have read everything. mystery, style, herbal, juggler, hypnotica, dd, mehow, etc. i have watched tons of pick up videos. i have learned elaborate pickup routines. i have spent so much time trying to learn all these new methods and having the best game, the most interesting stories, the coolest gambits, the best peacocking stuff. i have seen about everything.

and i can honestly say that nothing has helped me nearly as much as this thread. in high school i was your average AFC and i thought by adding all these new things i could figure it out. i have gotten better with pickup, but you are right, its about taking things away.

excellent! this is pure genius. you are officially THE MAN in my eyes. ive been running an inventory in my head of all my different pickup experiences from the time i was in elementary school(when i was a natural), to middle school (when i got dumped for the first time), to high school (when i was so AFC and afraid of rejection its not even funny), to college (where i started learning about stuff i was REALLY interested in) and this thread has been like someone throwing in little numbers and making this all add up. my mind is totally blown right now dude. amazing

everything about this thread rings 100% true

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:02 am 
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BE YOUR OWN GURU

There are a lot of pickup methods out there. There's Mystery Method, NLP, various and sundry forms of natural game, and probably a few that rely on prayer or something.

You wanna know which one of them is the best for you? NONE. Not in their entirety, at least.

Mystery Method was built by and for Mystery. He's congruent with it. That method reflects the way his mind works. Hypnotica and Steve Piccus are probably the best NLP seducers in the world. Zan did his thing for years and then later started telling guys how to do what he did.

All of these guys had found or developed something that worked for them. And in an effort to help out other guys, they codified what they did and started teaching it.

I started with Mystery Method. I found that it didn't work for me. I got one makeout in my time with it, and I wasn't even using proper Mystery Method when I did. The pickup was fifty-fifty vibing and kino. LOTS and LOTS of kino. I did a few takeaways and swirly-whirly tactical things, but looking back, I really didn't need to. I could have closed a lot earlier than I did and just cut a bunch of things out.

Ah, well. Live and learn.

As you all probably know, I'm an RSD boy now. The closest thing to a "method" in the sense of a step-by-step progression of actions that RSD uses is outlined in Foundations. And I don't use half of the stuff in it.

I don't "open" and "hook" as separate phases. When I'm not going direct, I take the "just start talking" approach, which could involve anything from joining a conversation in progress to telling a knock-knock joke. The way I see it, if people are looking at me and listening to me, I've hooked.

I don't qualify much. Occasionally I'll remember to do it, but usually I just completely forget to.

I barely use ANY routines. The ones that I do use were either created by me, or created by someone else and heavily modified by me, or were designed to be modified by the user in the first place (Shock and Awe). And the routines that I use are for very specific circumstances, usually closing (my rationale behind this is that if something unexpected happens, I want to be prepared for it instead of having to think up something on the spot, but I can mostly just freestyle and ride the vibe).

I don't consider "attraction" to be a separate and distinct phase in a pickup. I create attraction passively.

I kino. A lot. Probably more than I should.

I don't neg.

I don't disqualify except if I find myself needing to very early on in a set.

My game is extremely stripped down.

In fact, one (not me) might go so far as to say that I don't even run "RSD game." This is true partly because there really is no such thing, but it's also true in that I do things slightly differently than every other guy on the face of the planet.

And so do you.

I use Stormy Method. It works for me because I'm congruent with it. I looked all over the place at various and sundry ways of doing things, tried a bunch of them out, kept what worked, discarded what didn't. And I'm still adding and discarding pieces of my outer game.

THE ANATOMY OF A PICKUP

Really, a pickup only has two sine qua non ingredients: an open and a close. One person has to get the attention of another, and then sex has to happen. Everything in between is just how to get from point A to point B.

That's right. Attraction gambits, kino gambits, kiss gambits, negs, takeaways, FTCs, conspiracy plotlines, vibing... all of it is filler. It's something to do between getting the girl's attention and banging her. The only reason to do it is to get the girl's BT high enough so that she wants sex, and deal with her ASD so she doesn't feel like a slut.

Everything you do between opening and closing should serve one of those two purposes, if not both. Of course, that's not including group theory stuff like befriending and anti-AMOG, but that stuff is purely situational anyway.

YET ANOTHER THOUGHT EXPERIMENT

Imagine the perfect set: a lonewolf 10. She's by herself at a bar, value-scanning all over the place. She's looking somewhat bored; she's almost looking worried that nobody is talking to her. This is because Stormy has placed a force field around her that prevents anyone but you from noticing her. Thought experiment.

Your mission is to open and pull.

There will be no bitch shield. She will engage you in conversation if you go talk to her and aren't weird. And she'll be friendly too, because nobody else is talking to her.

There will be no cockblocks. Once you start talking to her, both you and her will be within the force field that I referred to earlier and nobody will see either one of you. THOUGHT EXPERIMENT.

There will be no boyfriend objection. She's single.

There will be no congruence tests. She's willing to take your word for whatever you say, as long as it's at least somewhat believable.

This girl will not receive any phone calls during the set. Her phone is dead. Force field.

She went to the bathroom earlier. She will not leave unless you weird her out.

I have deliberately made this the easiest set imaginable without putting her naked in your bed to start. She's your personal 10, so you should have plenty of motivation to pull.

Now ask yourself: can you do it? Can you pull this girl?

YOUR ANSWER

What are you using? What do you intend to do? What pieces of your pickup arsenal will be important here? What won't?

A few things that are obviously NOT important include anything you know about group theory. All gone. So is most of your indirect game knowledge, because it won't be necessary. This girl is actually going to be glad that you're talking to her.

What's left? A few attraction and kino gambits, maybe? Some closing routines? Your vibing skills? Your natural inner game?

If you don't believe that you can pull THIS girl under THESE circumstances, perhaps it's because most of what you know about pickup simply isn't useful here. Perhaps it's also because you don't believe enough in yourself to accept that this girl will be attracted to you if you maintain a good vibe with her.

And if you don't believe that you can pull a girl under the easiest of possible circumstances, then maybe it's time for you to forget the group theory and other "troubleshooting" aspects of game for a while and focus on your attraction game. And what did Stormy say about attraction game? It's something you do to YOURSELF, not others.

BUT I CAN PULL HER!

Oh, okay, cool. In that case, how long do you think it'll take? How much material are you going to pump into the timeline between open and close? Once again, how much of what you know is actually useful here, and how much of it isn't actually used to move things forward, but rather to keep things from going bad?

How many neat toys do you want to stuff into your game? How much of that will actually move things forward, how much of it puts a bullet in your foot, and how much of it just takes up time?

You probably won't need to do much. Pump her BT a little bit and bounce her.

BUILD YOUR OWN METHOD

Any decent pickup method must start with this circumstance. Seriously, if a method can't help you pull in the easiest of possible circumstances, then it probably isn't worth anything. The most basic portion of any given method is making the male/female polarity attraction happen. Everything else is utilities.

So we begin with attraction.

I've got my theory on attraction. I think it comes from the vibe that you create and maintain, and I think that that vibe comes from within.

Mystery's got his theory. Flipping attraction switches, cat/string, etc.

And there are a bunch of other theories as well.

So pick a theory of attraction. Start with that. Then figure out how that theory can help you when you're in an interaction where it's just you and her, in the simplest possible scenario. What must you do to yourself to make yourself attractive? And once you've done that, what kind of attitude are you going to bring to this girl? What are you going to present to her? What kind of value are you going to offer?

Whatever you do, it has to come from you. This is YOUR method.

You can tack on actual routines later. Troubleshooting can come MUCH later. For now, meditate on what it means to be an attractive man, as you understand that concept.

Then go do it and see what happens. You can start modifying things when you get feedback from the field.

Just realize that you don't have to do what someone else tells you to do just because they've banged more girls than you have. Doing so invites incongruence. In order to be congruent, you have to grow your game from a seed into a tree, water it, and take care of it. You can't build it based on someone else's model. Then it's not you.

_________________
http://www.makeherchaseyou.com/ <- Free 10-Day Bootcamp from Herbal
http://www.bristollair.com/outer-game/s ... ibing.html <- Tyler Durden on Vibing
frame-control-defining-reality-and-bei-vt34530.html


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:31 am 
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EDIT F-UP..

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Swoop


Last edited by Swoop on Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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