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 Post subject: natural vs. AFC
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:41 pm 
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to me there is only the natural or the AFC seriously.
Because the natural has no trouble having a relationship and staying in the relationship.
and the AFC tries to be or is a PUA but is never able to keep a relationship.

and the fundamental difference i think is
that while a natural is content with what he has an AFC is not.
a Natural has everything in life that he needs and therefore gets chicks
and AFC/PUA is not happy with his life and doesnt get chicks.

so its about finding out what makes you truly happy.
What makes you happy is actually value creation. PVG=positive value giving. In fact it makes you so happy that others will want to be in on the action. and then women attach to you like flies to ****.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:49 am 
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If you would check out the blueprint decoded...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:15 pm 
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Fair points Travolto. It's a bit more complicated than that though.

Some of the Blueprint is really good!

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 Post subject: Re: natural vs. AFC
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:24 pm 
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Quote:
to me there is only the natural or the AFC seriously.
Because the natural has no trouble having a relationship and staying in the relationship.
and the AFC tries to be or is a PUA but is never able to keep a relationship.

and the fundamental difference i think is
that while a natural is content with what he has an AFC is not.
a Natural has everything in life that he needs and therefore gets chicks
and AFC/PUA is not happy with his life and doesnt get chicks.

so its about finding out what makes you truly happy.
What makes you happy is actually value creation. PVG=positive value giving. In fact it makes you so happy that others will want to be in on the action. and then women attach to you like flies to ****.
Relationships are one thing. Picking up girls is another. Now I do agree with you in that we can't be robots, PUA lemmings out to "sarge sets" or this bullshit, but get real man. Almost everybody here has everything in their life that they need, no matter AFC or natural. We all have oxygen, shelter and food and communication. This forum is about getting what you want, and who the fuck has everything that they want? Relationships?? Common man, we're here to learn how to harness the power of choice, where you can decide how many relationships, if any, you want to be in. How many girls you want to sleep with tonight. Which girl you want to get serious with. Which ones you don't, and which ones you want to have routine sex with etc. Being in a successful relationship is a mere piece of the pie, and this forum is about so much more, so let's not narrow it down and get tunnel vision.

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some will rob you with a six-gun, some with a fountain pen...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:23 am 
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i think naturals usually have bad habits


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:40 am 
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i think naturals usually have bad habits
Perhaps, but most people have bad habits. Somebody who is naturally good at tennis probably could not beat Venus Williams, who studies and practices the sport. They could beat most people, however. Not being the best should not prevent them from enjoying the sport nor should it obligate them to practice to become better.

In all human endeavour, we achieve what we aim to achieve by directing our determination toward specific ends. Naturals who are sufficiently talented in attracting a romantic partner to satisfy their ambitions, however modest or grand those ambitions might be, are blessed. Most people are not naturally talented enough in any field to achieve any of their ambitions without training. I can not criticize a natural romantic who achieves his romantic ambitions without training and can, therefore, focus his determination on his other ambitions.

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Some vices miss what is right because they are deficient, others because they are excessive, in feelings or in actions, while virtue finds and chooses the mean.
Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:31 pm 
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yeah fair point but a pua can have a gf aswell its just hard for 1 to keep her with the knowledge that he can seduce a better looking 1 within the next week or even day.. well if theyre good enough


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:00 pm 
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I think a big difference between AFC and Natural is the inner game, a nartual has awsome inner game built in that he never questions and lives in his own reality so never questions it, where an AFC may develop an inner game, it will still be questioned and will have to foce himself to make it a reality..

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:48 pm 
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As I see it, the path that we call becoming PUA, is the way of transforming the inner game from AFC to Natural. (in your terms)

No Matter what system you use, no matter what method, what you ultimately get out of it is social confidence.
This is the idea of dedication.


You go out and open 100 sets you are bound to pick up on more subtle communication, regardless of whether this is Conscious or Unconscious.
In other words; whether you go "ah, ok, since she does this that usually means she wants me to build more sexual attraction" or if you go "Something makes me feel like going into sexual attraction"...

The Natural is the guy who is completely unconscious about the signs, mostly.
The guy who trusts his own feelings about the situation, and when you prod him some more may say "You just know she wants it"... you just......
or he may have a little insight and say things like "you see the way her lip trembles" or he may even be off with his "insight" but he'll be attuned to the subcommunication, the underlying vibes.

The PUA is the art of becoming conscious, at least at some level, to the subtle communication, and integrating this into your unconscious behavior through repetition and guidance. So you'll at some level become conscious of the little signs, and then be able to explain the stuff to others.

A Natural will probably have less of an idea of why doing something is right in a given situation than the PUA.


I'll give you a simple understanding of how Learning works.

This model is very useful to have at least a basic understanding of:
First step: Unconscious Incompetence. (you don't know that you don't know)
Second step: Conscious Incompetence (You know that you don't know)
Third step: Conscious Competence (You know how to do the thing, but only when you focus on it.)
Fourth and final step: Unconscious Competence (You don't think about how you do it, you just know)


Think about driving a car:
First you have no idea of hard it may be. (UI)
then you realize that you have no idea of how to do it (CI)
Then you are able to execute the actions on a conscious level. but since it is restricted to your conscious it takes a lot of focus and you really have to concentrate to keep on the road, clutch, gear, give a little gas to compensate the slack, and then carry on driving.
The final step this is purely unconscious. (UC)
So you just tell your body you want to change gears, and it carries it through perfectly. It's just like walking, or lifting an arm.


This holds true for pick-up as well.

As you get to the higher levels your body does the right things at the right time, you may still intercept the signal, and override the unconscious process, but at the Unconscious Competence level you don't have to think about "what comes next" "She said this, then I have to say something like..." etc.
Your mind does this automatically for you.

This is how the Natural is.
But for many of them they have had little interaction within the conscious level.
They don't know what it is they do.
Being a PUA, you will be able to spot and identify the different stages you go through.
You'll know when to build comfort, and you will be able to explain why this is important.
The natural will, since he is guided by the unconscious, not be aware of why he does it. He will simply "know" or feel that is the right thing to do at the moment.


Hope you get this stuff, because it can be of serious help in understanding what this is all about.
And while you may learn at a conscious level what to do in different situations in here, at forums, or through videos, books, whatever. The crucial step is the final one, with integrating this type of action or behavior into the unconscious so that it happens automatically,
and that step can only be achieved by actually going out and doing the stuff.

Program your body to do the right things at the right time.

I can go on, but I'll just end up repeating myself, and it's better you read through the post once more... I have other stuff that I have to do, it's friday after all ;)

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:14 pm 
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I think The Big Bad Wolf hit the nail on the head, great way to explain it.

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