Artful Roger Journal


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 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:47 pm 
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artfulroger wrote:
@Bond I actually slept with her on valentines night, it was pretty good but she's such a poor kisser that I can't just have a casual thing with her, it just puts me right off her.

So my thesis and essay are in, and my finals are coming up but I have a little bit of time before I have to cut down on the development into my game. I'm tackling both inner game at the same time, as I think this will give me an even stronger outer game, funnily enough I'm quite happy with my current outer game skill set, at least for right now.

I bought Owen Marcus' "Grow Up" and have been quite delighted with the material in there so far, so I've been working on growing up and achieving a masculine emotional intelligence, as the books states - something that appeals to me.

In chapter 3 it emphasises getting away from emphasising your emotional stability on women and your childhood- to become independent, basically your own man.. something I am not. The book asks you to write a list of traits (which I have done), and then create a master list. Then you're to rate yourself in those traits on each and write how each one shows up in you. I figured I'd do that here.

Masculine: Stable, leader, integrity, reliable, problem solving, decisive
Feminine: Supportive, nurturing, expressive, sensitive, vulnerable,

Anyway onto my traits:

1= poor demonstration
10= excellent demonstration

Masculine:

Stable: 6/10. I'm talking being well balanced, I'm quite good at this while calm but I tend to not make a good point of call in stressful situations. I need to calm down and take a step back at times, then move forward not just use an anxious shotgun method like I've been doing a lot in the past to get past any problems or road blocks.

Leader: 3/10. I'm very poor at this in general, there's only specific situations I tend to be at leading and that's when I'm on my own and have to make them. I can't lead a group of people, I tend to sit back and let others make decisions but I do throw suggestions in there.

Integrity: 6/10. I'm a very honest person, I can tell people the truth and also handle it. The issue is I'm not integral to my own decisions, I feel like I need to seek acceptance of others, as in it's right to believe or behave that way.

Reliable: 9/10. I'm very good at this, and people can often rely on me to get a job done or turn up when needed, this doesn't need adjusting at all, I'm very proud of this aspect in me.

Problem solving 8/10. I'm also very good at this, I like to fix things whether objects, or help people out, however the reason I give 8 is because I'm not trying to be altruistic I need to care of myself too. Taking care of others is a form of procrastination to take care of yourself.

Decisive: 4/10. Another one I'm very poor at, I dwell on making decisions, I overthink a lot. However this benefits me in that the big decisions are always the right decisions, however little things - sometimes I just need to take action.

Feminine

Supportive 8/10. I think this is a positive trait, I'm very supportive of decisions anyone makes and I try to make sure there's no benefit in me achieving something through their decisions. If someone says I want to do this, I encourage them to go for it (need to apply this to myself a little more).

Nurturing: 3/10. Not very, apart from the occasional odd favour of doing something helpful for someone occasionally then there's not much. I've never looked to take someone under my wing and help them out, I don't really see this as a negative, as I'm no position to help someone out.

Expressive: 5/10. I often express my feelings internally and can handle them myself, but sometimes when I get really hurt I just dwell on emotions that aren't helpful to me. I guess this has it's benefits in that I process what I have to before diving into something new.

Sensitive 7/10. Probably overly so for at least a male. I guess this relates to what I wrote for integrity and decisive in masculine traits, but I reckon it's that deep lacking of support for my own wants and needs that exposes me here.

Vulnerable 3/10. Not particularly physically, but I guess this interrelated with sensitivity because there's always a chance of getting hurt if there's generally low-self esteem and anxieties floating around.

Over the next few days I'll be thinking of this list and how I show them, before I tackle them. In the meantime, and I know it's the internet but I've tried to be honest and out there with all my posts; so if anyone can leave any comments on my list and their thoughts on their aspect in relation to me, I would be really grateful.


http://www.rsdnation.com/ozzie/blog/do- ... ets-use-it


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 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:53 am 
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Quote:
http://www.rsdnation.com/ozzie/blog/do-you-have-sticking-point-lets-use-it


I like this video, it's so true, there's really no such thing as sticking points, just false limiting-beliefs.


On another note I just read this blog:
http://charliehoehn.com/2013/02/24/the- ... mployment/

I can totally relate to it, I'm at a point in my career where I want freelance work so I totally see myself in the number 6 position of his scale. But more importantly with the dating aspect he writes about, well I fee like I'm back at number 1 again, like I suck and can't get anyone. But the truth is I just got out of number 5 where, the last 3 girls I slept with I just played the part I thought I should and feel really shitty about it at the time. Time to put myself out there honestly and genuinely.

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 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:29 pm 
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So haven't updated in a while mainly as my uni course is ending soon and I really need to work hard for the exams that start in a months time. Also currently working on an essay.

Just trying to summarise this week:

There was a really hot girl in the library when I was working and I wanted to meet her, she was so good looking she was putting me off my work! Anyway I didn't approach because I didn't know what to say, however on reflection I should have said "Hi, sorry for staring but you're so attractive, I wanted to come and meet you, my names ___."

The next day I was in a Costa grabbing a coffee on the way to uni and there was a really hot girl I wanted to meet, again stuck without an opener, just blank lines in my head. Since it was a Costa at my uni, I should have just stood near her and said "Hi, working hard?" like I knew her already.

And last night I went out for some drinks with my professor, 2 Phd students and 3 fellow students. He bought us all drinks because we worked so hard and well on our projects/thesis' we had a couple of rounds and had a great laugh with him. Then they headed off but the students and I stayed out some more people came out and we just got really drunk basically, one of the girls had just broken up with her boyfriend fairly recently she was all over me, leaning on me, hitting me, touching my thigh, so I knew there would be a chance for something to happen and I was planning it in my head how to do it, isolate, make a move, etc., but she went home as we changed venues as she had work the next morning.
We headed to a local bar with live music, and danced and drank some more, I thought I actually haven't approached someone in ages while out, because I haven't been out in a long time due lack of money and expandable time. So we were dancing and I noticed a really hot girl and her friend dancing near me with 2 guys, they weren't together the guys had just shuffled their way next to them, she kept looking at me, so I knew she was interested and I wanted to chat to her, but waited and waited and waited, after all that waiting she was kissing one of those guys. Snooze you lose. A little while after that I went to buy a round, and saw a really cute girl, I wasn't missing out this time I think I said something like, "What cocktail are you getting?" we chatted a little bit then I said a line that seems to get a lot of laughs "in danger of sounding like I'm trying to pick you up, but do you come here often?" and she laughed again, we exchanged names and then she spotted her friends and went off. After about 10 minutes our group decided to leave, so I re-approached told her that I was heading out and asked for her number, but phrased similarly to something like "I'm just heading out, but I wanted to come and ask for your number, and don't worry if you don't want to give it out" she asked me, what was my name? I laughed and said you're her name from part of London, got my phone and she told me her number, I don't even know if it's the right one, I'll shoot a text over to her soon to find out. Which didn't share that much of a connection so I doubt she'd be open to seeing/meeting me one-on-one, going try and build that over text - if possible.

Some thoughts and rambling's:

On Monday night I was at a friend of mine's for her birthday, she hosted a small gathering. A conversation came up where one of the girls was talking about her relationship with her current boyfriend, she basically was saying she had no idea if they'd be together next year and where things were going. I just found this a really interesting insight into how girls work, they hate to be alone and if a better model comes along they'll jump ship - well unless they're not in love and devoted already I would assume.

Secondly, hooking up within social groups. There's a couple of girls that I know where I'm not too invested in them or the groups they operate in where I'd like to hook up with them, but I don't know how. Obviously it would need to be kept under wraps because a girl's most valuable asset is their reputation. I don't even know where to begin with starting something like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:38 pm 
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I remember kasabi advicing me once that, as a pua, you should ALWAYS have a list of at least five openers at the tip of your tongue.

Work on a list about that and remember; it`s just a good conversation starter. So no need to use situational always with girls, just think about 5 good ones and shoot em out.


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 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:26 am 
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@Bond. I'm good for it at night, but daytime is where I struggle for it. Definitely need to do some opener exercises at some point.

So I was back in my home town for a couple of days, on Saturday I went out with some friends, and they both have girlfriends so if I wanted to approach women it'd be on my own and own admission. There's was a girl sitting on the this booth on her own, friend at the bar, and both my friends were like "go talk to her!" At first, I was making excuses which basically sounded like "waaa, waaaa" but then I just thought what's the worst that can happen? So I went over (she had this really low cut top with AMAZING boobs lol) and I started chatting, made a comment on her drink because it was this pint glass with like 3 upside down VK bottles in and a shitload of straws, "that must be a birthday drink?" it wasn't her birthday, got her name and age, and chatted in general for a little while. The funny thing was I was really cool and confident, and she said "you're not from around here are you?" so told her I was living in London, and I reckon she said this because the guys round my hometown area 1. all dress the same and 2. are mega chodes. Got their logistics for later, they were going to a different club to us, damn. Wouldn't budge on going to the same one as us. That ended there.

Went to a different pub, the 2 guys I was with noticed a few girls from school, started chatting to them, I got paired off with the other girl, and we got on great chatting for a good 30 mins, about everything really. Then we switched pubs, turns out she works in London and travels there everyday - so a good chance for a meet up, perhaps when she finishes work or something. She asked what I did, for the second time, and I really teased her about this turned the gender roles, "have you been listening to anything I've been saying tonight? You're just looking to take me home aren't you?" Since at this point there was a really good vibe between us, I told her about the area I live (Camden) and blew it up to be the best experience of a lifetime. For an outsider it really is. Then transitioned into this we have to go to this bar, live blues bands, great cocktails you'll love it, she was game so I got her number, and then sent her a text right there and then "get to camden!" and she text back right away "yes!" Normally I'm hesitant about these conversations as I was pretty drunk, but I equally know she was as drunk. I'll see where this one goes.

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 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:14 pm 
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Bond-007 wrote:
I remember kasabi advicing me once that, as a pua, you should ALWAYS have a list of at least five openers at the tip of your tongue.

Work on a list about that and remember; it`s just a good conversation starter. So no need to use situational always with girls, just think about 5 good ones and shoot em out.


Bond, I agree. Why not a few routines too ? I'm working on little cheat sheet myself. It's good to have things to refer to.

Prior Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance ( shout outs to Fin )

Let's take this a step further - what about a few gigs you've used in the past that you know work ? Even if we're not conscious of it, I'm sure we all have a few "repeats". These are bits we've used several times that generally elicit the same response- a joke you know will get a good response for example.

I've been taking note of writing my "routines" down.

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 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:20 pm 
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I actually set out today to improve my openers. Every time I hit the gym I normally have something to eat after for about 20 minutes in a small cafe next to the gym, and there's always cute girls there so I decided to use this time effectively today. And these 20 minute exercises will happen 4x times a week, so I'm guessing I'll eventually get very good at coming up with these on the spot - that's the theory anyway.

As it was a Sunday there was only one cute girl in there and it was pretty dead. She had blonde hair, well dressed, was working on a Macbook, papers and books spread all over the desk, also wearing headphones. Decided to write these down in my notepad:

- Did you get kicked out of starbucks because you're actually working instead of pretending to work?
- You're lucky it's not busy in here, these are no manors for table sharing
- Are you actually getting work done under all this chaos (pointing at books and papers)
- By the way you're working I bet there's a rave going on in those headphones
- Did you just hit the gym hard and now the books even harder?

I'll aim for 5 every time.

Da, I like what you said about preparing jokes, or good stories. The problem is trying to unnaturally fit it into a conversation, but nonetheless being aware of your "best" selection isn't a bad thing I suppose. I actually did a write up of some of my favourite places to go for a day 2 a few pages back. The good thing is, although I wrote them ages ago, they've actually stuck with me.

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 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:53 pm 
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artfulroger wrote:
I actually set out today to improve my openers. Every time I hit the gym I normally have something to eat after for about 20 minutes in a small cafe next to the gym, and there's always cute girls there so I decided to use this time effectively today. And these 20 minute exercises will happen 4x times a week, so I'm guessing I'll eventually get very good at coming up with these on the spot - that's the theory anyway.

As it was a Sunday there was only one cute girl in there and it was pretty dead. She had blonde hair, well dressed, was working on a Macbook, papers and books spread all over the desk, also wearing headphones. Decided to write these down in my notepad:

- Did you get kicked out of starbucks because you're actually working instead of pretending to work?
- You're lucky it's not busy in here, these are no manors for table sharing
- Are you actually getting work done under all this chaos (pointing at books and papers)
- By the way you're working I bet there's a rave going on in those headphones
- Did you just hit the gym hard and now the books even harder?

I'll aim for 5 every time.

Da, I like what you said about preparing jokes, or good stories. The problem is trying to unnaturally fit it into a conversation, but nonetheless being aware of your "best" selection isn't a bad thing I suppose. I actually did a write up of some of my favourite places to go for a day 2 a few pages back. The good thing is, although I wrote them ages ago, they've actually stuck with me.


Hey buddy, mind if I give you some advice?

It's good that you're working on these openers, however please note that there is a flaw in this. You're focusing on the opener a lot, and on what to say after the opener, however the key to getting girls is to not care about getting them. To want them, but not care if you get this specific one or not. Once you actually stop caring, you actually also stop caring about the opener. My openers range from "hi i wanted to meet you" to "you look like jack sparrow". It's not like I'm writing these down, I'm just spouting shit. Why am I spouting shit? Because I don't care.

How do you get to this "not caring" point? You cannot fake it. Therefore you have to reach it. How? By an ABUNDANCE of approaches, an ABUNDANCE of interactions. ABC, always be closing, sure, but once you have an abundance of pretty much everything, you think to yourself, if I don't get this chick, the next one might be a good interaction. And if that one doesn't work, then there's another 100.

Once you have this down, you get to the point where you think "It'll happen at some point or another". You're putting in the effort, you're doing everything within your control, and then you just "let it be". Whatever the universe has in store for you will happen. Maybe the next 100 are all shit, or maybe you're on a lucky streak. WHO KNOWS. It doesn't matter.

Develop a love for the GAME, not for the girl. The GAME is hilarious once you actually play it, once you make it your own. But don't do it for the sake of increasing your "batting average", do it beacuse, hell, why not have fun. Why not have fun on the way to the next lay? You have very little control over getting a lay. You can do certain things, like be persistent, go for the pull, go for the number, talk shit, go for the makeout, but she might have a BF, she might be real busy, have a really bad day, or whatever. Over this you have no control. Not even the best opener will do much for you here. Therefore, if you have so little control, why not HAVE FUN? This game can be tough, but only because you make it so. You have to realize there is very little control over the person you're interacting with. All you can do is possibly spike her emotions and get her invested in you. Other than that, who the fuck knows.

So with this mentality of "I'm doing everything that is within my control, so now I'll just let it be and see what happens and have fun on the way to the next success" the opener doesn't matter anymore. Forget getting the best opener, focus on the big picture. The GAME in general. You can work on specifics, sure, but you are putting so much worth on the opener, or on what to say after the opener, that the girl can feel it. get rid of this caring, and truly have fun in the moment.

So in the end, the opener becomes an opener for YOU. If your mentality is what I mentioned above in quotation marks, and your goal is to have FUN along the way, then you will choose an opener where you are AMUSED. Where you have fun. You will not care about the girl's reaction, beacuse all you care about is your own reaction. If you want to have fun there, then the opener and everything after the opener will take care of that. This is why I get away with so much bullshit talk when I speak with girls. I talked to a girl about crosspuking the other day. Her friend said she crosspuked (where two people puke and form a cross with their streams), and I told her friend she and I should cross puke and that it'll be romantic. Was I thinking about "will this spike her emotions?" NO! I thought that shit was hilarious, because it was the beginning of the night and fuck I can't care less anymore about what these chicks think of me. The game is tough as it is, so might as well have fun.

And you get to this mentality, as I said, by a complete ABUNDANCE of interactions. If you were to go out every day, or 5 days a week let's say, and you dedicated yourself, committed yourself to it, and stopped counting approaches and just approached and approached and approached, hell at one point or another, you're gonna get laid. Maybe quite a lot.

And then you AUTOMATICALLY get good on the side because after so many interactions you calibrate yourself. You realize what works and what doesn't. You get REFERENCE EXPERIENCES, as RSD calls it. There guys from RSD are so good because they have done SO MANY approaches. Literally thousands, and they go out 6-7 nights a week, getting more and more and more experience, live experience. Doing trial and error, for real. That is how you truly get good. That is how you will get the great opener. Do trial and error in real life. You will EMOTIONALLY learn the game, because the game will push you from side to side calibrating you as you go. This burns, this works. And it will also force you to truly learn to self amuse. Because at one point the game really becomes bullshit, so much pain so much hurt, by the end you think fuck it, let's have fun. That's how you get the great story. If you are seeking that by then, that is.


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 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:53 pm 
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Tr@veler wrote:
Hey buddy, mind if I give you some advice?

It's good that you're working on these openers, however please note that there is a flaw in this. You're focusing on the opener a lot, and on what to say after the opener, however the key to getting girls is to not care about getting them. To want them, but not care if you get this specific one or not. Once you actually stop caring, you actually also stop caring about the opener. My openers range from "hi i wanted to meet you" to "you look like jack sparrow". It's not like I'm writing these down, I'm just spouting shit. Why am I spouting shit? Because I don't care.

How do you get to this "not caring" point? You cannot fake it. Therefore you have to reach it. How? By an ABUNDANCE of approaches, an ABUNDANCE of interactions. ABC, always be closing, sure, but once you have an abundance of pretty much everything, you think to yourself, if I don't get this chick, the next one might be a good interaction. And if that one doesn't work, then there's another 100.

Once you have this down, you get to the point where you think "It'll happen at some point or another". You're putting in the effort, you're doing everything within your control, and then you just "let it be". Whatever the universe has in store for you will happen. Maybe the next 100 are all shit, or maybe you're on a lucky streak. WHO KNOWS. It doesn't matter.

Develop a love for the GAME, not for the girl. The GAME is hilarious once you actually play it, once you make it your own. But don't do it for the sake of increasing your "batting average", do it beacuse, hell, why not have fun. Why not have fun on the way to the next lay? You have very little control over getting a lay. You can do certain things, like be persistent, go for the pull, go for the number, talk shit, go for the makeout, but she might have a BF, she might be real busy, have a really bad day, or whatever. Over this you have no control. Not even the best opener will do much for you here. Therefore, if you have so little control, why not HAVE FUN? This game can be tough, but only because you make it so. You have to realize there is very little control over the person you're interacting with. All you can do is possibly spike her emotions and get her invested in you. Other than that, who the fuck knows.

So with this mentality of "I'm doing everything that is within my control, so now I'll just let it be and see what happens and have fun on the way to the next success" the opener doesn't matter anymore. Forget getting the best opener, focus on the big picture. The GAME in general. You can work on specifics, sure, but you are putting so much worth on the opener, or on what to say after the opener, that the girl can feel it. get rid of this caring, and truly have fun in the moment.

So in the end, the opener becomes an opener for YOU. If your mentality is what I mentioned above in quotation marks, and your goal is to have FUN along the way, then you will choose an opener where you are AMUSED. Where you have fun. You will not care about the girl's reaction, beacuse all you care about is your own reaction. If you want to have fun there, then the opener and everything after the opener will take care of that. This is why I get away with so much bullshit talk when I speak with girls. I talked to a girl about crosspuking the other day. Her friend said she crosspuked (where two people puke and form a cross with their streams), and I told her friend she and I should cross puke and that it'll be romantic. Was I thinking about "will this spike her emotions?" NO! I thought that shit was hilarious, because it was the beginning of the night and fuck I can't care less anymore about what these chicks think of me. The game is tough as it is, so might as well have fun.

And you get to this mentality, as I said, by a complete ABUNDANCE of interactions. If you were to go out every day, or 5 days a week let's say, and you dedicated yourself, committed yourself to it, and stopped counting approaches and just approached and approached and approached, hell at one point or another, you're gonna get laid. Maybe quite a lot.

And then you AUTOMATICALLY get good on the side because after so many interactions you calibrate yourself. You realize what works and what doesn't. You get REFERENCE EXPERIENCES, as RSD calls it. There guys from RSD are so good because they have done SO MANY approaches. Literally thousands, and they go out 6-7 nights a week, getting more and more and more experience, live experience. Doing trial and error, for real. That is how you truly get good. That is how you will get the great opener. Do trial and error in real life. You will EMOTIONALLY learn the game, because the game will push you from side to side calibrating you as you go. This burns, this works. And it will also force you to truly learn to self amuse. Because at one point the game really becomes bullshit, so much pain so much hurt, by the end you think fuck it, let's have fun. That's how you get the great story. If you are seeking that by then, that is.


Hey buddy, mind if I give you some advice? If you don't care about getting girls, consider staying home. You've reached your level or autonomous approaching through shit volume. You're a low level telemarketer making 1,000 calls a day so you're suggesting to others to reach this level. You are suggesting for others offer shit because most girls will give you shit responses back any way. . . and you know they do (to you). This is bottom of the barrel crap. There is no other area in life where this is the formula for success. It does not work in academia, sports, nor any sectors of professional life. Hell, you definitely won't make many friends navigating your life this way. And for some odd reason, this seems to be a recurring theme in pick up. "Go amuse yourself.". . . "Go tell them any shit you want." . . . I can think of only one instance in life where this type of advice is given; it's when the circus owner tells its chicken head biting circus freak shows to step on stage to give the audience a show. "Go amuse yourself! Do whatever the fuck you want to do. Pull your dick out and piss on the stage. Bend over and stick my cane up your ass. . hahahah you fucking retard! Hahahah! Dance retard! Dance!" - Do you understand that you are doing this on your own without a circus master forcing you to do it?

The idea of "abundance" is to have an "abundance" of positive interactions. . . an "abundance" of strong attraction. . . an "abundance" of girls who even if they shoot you down out of uncontrollable circumstances (they're on the rag, they have a boyfriend, they forgot to shower, etc. . .) they tell themselves and others, "WOW, that guy is hot!" (And if you've been with an "abundance" of women, you'd know that they are not referring to only you're physical appearance)

The term "trial and error" refers to a system of problem solving through repeated attempts through varying methods until you reach your goal. You start off with the BEST METHOD you can come up with now. Then as you make more attempts, you vary your strategy . . .

Trial and error DOES NOT refer to a system of not giving a fuck about results or doing whatever the fuck you want to do. This is the most retarded bullshit in pick up and we see this again, again, and again. And I am getting somewhat sick of this RFB, DRT, PTC, RGB, Kungfu Pick up system morons who have nothing going for them (Guess why?) other than a legion of equally lost followers taking orders to "dance retard, dance".

Writing up 5 openers is NOTHING. Most guys put more effort into figuring out which porn to jack off to on a Monday night. Writing a little cheat sheet is NOTHING. Most guys put more effort into researching their next game on xBox. Caring enough to think about another human being. . . and telling her something that reflects her life and injects just a tiny bit of "happy" into her day is NOTHING. Most guys put more effort into thinking up which toppings to order for their pizza.


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 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:34 pm 
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kasabi wrote:
Tr@veler wrote:
Hey buddy, mind if I give you some advice?

It's good that you're working on these openers, however please note that there is a flaw in this. You're focusing on the opener a lot, and on what to say after the opener, however the key to getting girls is to not care about getting them. To want them, but not care if you get this specific one or not. Once you actually stop caring, you actually also stop caring about the opener. My openers range from "hi i wanted to meet you" to "you look like jack sparrow". It's not like I'm writing these down, I'm just spouting shit. Why am I spouting shit? Because I don't care.

How do you get to this "not caring" point? You cannot fake it. Therefore you have to reach it. How? By an ABUNDANCE of approaches, an ABUNDANCE of interactions. ABC, always be closing, sure, but once you have an abundance of pretty much everything, you think to yourself, if I don't get this chick, the next one might be a good interaction. And if that one doesn't work, then there's another 100.

Once you have this down, you get to the point where you think "It'll happen at some point or another". You're putting in the effort, you're doing everything within your control, and then you just "let it be". Whatever the universe has in store for you will happen. Maybe the next 100 are all shit, or maybe you're on a lucky streak. WHO KNOWS. It doesn't matter.

Develop a love for the GAME, not for the girl. The GAME is hilarious once you actually play it, once you make it your own. But don't do it for the sake of increasing your "batting average", do it beacuse, hell, why not have fun. Why not have fun on the way to the next lay? You have very little control over getting a lay. You can do certain things, like be persistent, go for the pull, go for the number, talk shit, go for the makeout, but she might have a BF, she might be real busy, have a really bad day, or whatever. Over this you have no control. Not even the best opener will do much for you here. Therefore, if you have so little control, why not HAVE FUN? This game can be tough, but only because you make it so. You have to realize there is very little control over the person you're interacting with. All you can do is possibly spike her emotions and get her invested in you. Other than that, who the fuck knows.

So with this mentality of "I'm doing everything that is within my control, so now I'll just let it be and see what happens and have fun on the way to the next success" the opener doesn't matter anymore. Forget getting the best opener, focus on the big picture. The GAME in general. You can work on specifics, sure, but you are putting so much worth on the opener, or on what to say after the opener, that the girl can feel it. get rid of this caring, and truly have fun in the moment.

So in the end, the opener becomes an opener for YOU. If your mentality is what I mentioned above in quotation marks, and your goal is to have FUN along the way, then you will choose an opener where you are AMUSED. Where you have fun. You will not care about the girl's reaction, beacuse all you care about is your own reaction. If you want to have fun there, then the opener and everything after the opener will take care of that. This is why I get away with so much bullshit talk when I speak with girls. I talked to a girl about crosspuking the other day. Her friend said she crosspuked (where two people puke and form a cross with their streams), and I told her friend she and I should cross puke and that it'll be romantic. Was I thinking about "will this spike her emotions?" NO! I thought that shit was hilarious, because it was the beginning of the night and fuck I can't care less anymore about what these chicks think of me. The game is tough as it is, so might as well have fun.

And you get to this mentality, as I said, by a complete ABUNDANCE of interactions. If you were to go out every day, or 5 days a week let's say, and you dedicated yourself, committed yourself to it, and stopped counting approaches and just approached and approached and approached, hell at one point or another, you're gonna get laid. Maybe quite a lot.

And then you AUTOMATICALLY get good on the side because after so many interactions you calibrate yourself. You realize what works and what doesn't. You get REFERENCE EXPERIENCES, as RSD calls it. There guys from RSD are so good because they have done SO MANY approaches. Literally thousands, and they go out 6-7 nights a week, getting more and more and more experience, live experience. Doing trial and error, for real. That is how you truly get good. That is how you will get the great opener. Do trial and error in real life. You will EMOTIONALLY learn the game, because the game will push you from side to side calibrating you as you go. This burns, this works. And it will also force you to truly learn to self amuse. Because at one point the game really becomes bullshit, so much pain so much hurt, by the end you think fuck it, let's have fun. That's how you get the great story. If you are seeking that by then, that is.


Hey buddy, mind if I give you some advice? If you don't care about getting girls, consider staying home. You've reached your level or autonomous approaching through shit volume. You're a low level telemarketer making 1,000 calls a day so you're suggesting to others to reach this level. You are suggesting for others offer shit because most girls will give you shit responses back any way. . . and you know they do (to you). This is bottom of the barrel crap. There is no other area in life where this is the formula for success. It does not work in academia, sports, nor any sectors of professional life. Hell, you definitely won't make many friends navigating your life this way. And for some odd reason, this seems to be a recurring theme in pick up. "Go amuse yourself.". . . "Go tell them any shit you want." . . . I can think of only one instance in life where this type of advice is given; it's when the circus owner tells its chicken head biting circus freak shows to step on stage to give the audience a show. "Go amuse yourself! Do whatever the fuck you want to do. Pull your dick out and piss on the stage. Bend over and stick my cane up your ass. . hahahah you fucking retard! Hahahah! Dance retard! Dance!" - Do you understand that you are doing this on your own without a circus master forcing you to do it?

The idea of "abundance" is to have an "abundance" of positive interactions. . . an "abundance" of strong attraction. . . an "abundance" of girls who even if they shoot you down out of uncontrollable circumstances (they're on the rag, they have a boyfriend, they forgot to shower, etc. . .) they tell themselves and others, "WOW, that guy is hot!" (And if you've been with an "abundance" of women, you'd know that they are not referring to only you're physical appearance)

The term "trial and error" refers to a system of problem solving through repeated attempts through varying methods until you reach your goal. You start off with the BEST METHOD you can come up with now. Then as you make more attempts, you vary your strategy . . .

Trial and error DOES NOT refer to a system of not giving a fuck about results or doing whatever the fuck you want to do. This is the most retarded bullshit in pick up and we see this again, again, and again. And I am getting somewhat sick of this RFB, DRT, PTC, RGB, Kungfu Pick up system morons who have nothing going for them (Guess why?) other than a legion of equally lost followers taking orders to "dance retard, dance".

Writing up 5 openers is NOTHING. Most guys put more effort into figuring out which porn to jack off to on a Monday night. Writing a little cheat sheet is NOTHING. Most guys put more effort into researching their next game on xBox. Caring enough to think about another human being. . . and telling her something that reflects her life and injects just a tiny bit of "happy" into her day is NOTHING. Most guys put more effort into thinking up which toppings to order for their pizza.


Wow Kasabi, thanks for the flame.

Now, let's back up here a little bit and calm ourselves. Firstly, staying at home, as you said, will not get you anywhere. However, my post indicated that he go out, and go out a lot, in order to turn this theory stuff into practice. I'm sorry, but this is the ONLY way to get better. If there is one thing that will get you better at pickup, it is going out and doing it. Not theorizing about it, not writing down openers, but doing it. Guess what, if you go up to a girl and say "hi" that's an opener, you just opened the conversation. Why write shit down BEFORE you do it? Why not write shit down AFTER you do it? Then you do not only have a new opener, but also a reference for that opener. Is one reference enough? Fuck no. If she had a bad day and gave you a shitty response, and you base the "effectiveness" of the opener on that reaction, guess what, you'll be saying "Oh that opener doesn't work!" However if you do it 10 more times and get varied responses, your perception of that opener has now changed.

If you base your idea of abundance on an "abundance of positive interactions" but...oh no!...you get positive AND negative interactions...oh no suddenly you suck! Suddenly you're shit! WTF? No you're not. You have very little control over how a girl responds that basing how good you are on her reaction to something you said is stupid. There are key elements in pickup that can change a girl's emotions, for sure. However theorizing over it but not actually doing it a LOT will not get you very far. A martial artist may have been taught a sequence of moves, however it will only flow beautifully once he has done it a LOT of times.

Dude I'm actually agreeing with a lot of what you are saying. Once you have the skillset and also the mindset, you are an attractive guy to a LOT of girls, ones who have boyfriends, ones who have that special time of the month, or whatever. But to go into an interaction hoping it will go well is a form of neediness. To try and think of the "perfect opener" is a form of neediness. "This girl is sitting by herself in a cafe, what will get the best reaction?" You will never know what will get the best reaction, and it doesn't matter. All that matters is that you go in, and when you go in might as well have fun with it. After the opener you can calibrate anyway, if she's receptive all you might have to do is be a cool dude and not say anything stupid, or you might have to do most of the talking if she's not open at first...who knows? But you will only learn it after you've done it a LOT of times. And by doing it a lot of times you will fuck up a lot. Maybe you didn't fuck up a lot. Maybe you strategized really well after every single interaction that your results went up like crazy, mine didn't. It took me a long time to go from someone who can hardly have a normal conversation with people, to being able to fuck girls I meet in bars, clubs, streets or wherever else. And the way I got there was made MORE difficult for myself by me trying to think of the best this or that and putting an insane amount of value on what I said or what I did.

If you actually tried to understand my post you might have gotten that I said you have to want, but not care if you get the girl. Caring if you get her is neediness. "Oh man, she's so pretty, I have to have her." For a lot of guys this instills fear. Fear of loss, and thus every word that comes out of their mouths is calculated to the point where they think they might fuck up any moment. However if you do it for the sake of bettering yourself and ultimately finding the fun in bettering yourself, the high level of caring is gone. Your aim becomes to better your pickup skill, rather than actually getting the girl. And as you know the end result of a pickup is a lay. So if you are working on bettering your pickup skills, or like I said in my previous post "Develop a love for the GAME, not the girl", you are fine tuning your skills and thus making the lay more efficient. You indirectly become better at seducing girls.

And well if you don't have fun developing your own game, then that sucks for you dude. I have finally found the fun in game, and I see it in my wings as well. They have developed a love for the game, at getting better at the game, and are going out a lot, doing a lot of approaches, so that they can get better at this pickup stuff. That is their goal. It is not to find "the one" or get this specific girl. And their game has improved a lot.

But whatever man, go flame if you want.


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 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 10:12 pm 
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For me making an approach personal, allows me to be authentic and showing interest in someone is actually quite rare, and I pride myself on being different. I can live with not getting 100s of lays, I'm just here to meet quality women, and I know they don't lurk in bars or clubs (generally speaking).

I'll expand on this later, but now I have to rant.

I am literally dumbfounded at some of the girls I know and the AFCs/beta males(hell even delta males) they are dating. I went to a party last night and for the first time a girl I know brought her boyfriend. She is really smart, really cute and very open minded. And I thought her boyfriend would have been of the same ilk, well how wrong I was. He is a plumber, and his hobbies involve the gym, boxing and being passionate about football, he could express his feelings for football more so than her.

A second girl, albeit went through a mentally abusive relationship last year; is currently seeing a guy in his early 30s he works as a hotel doorman, and is basically an alcoholic, he necks a few beers every night on his own in a dark room. She is really pretty and incredibly open, she told me the depths of that abusive relationship last night, it was intriguing stuff. They've been seeing each other 6 months.

Kasabi, you've often written the formula on this forum, value = perceived benefits/cost. I do not see any value these guys attribute to their lives, I really don't. Their habits are plain and predictable, they operate unconsciously and have probably never tried to do anything challenging recently. Hell they're not even fun or exciting, my only prediction is they're a "make do" until a better deal comes along. Then it's too far down the line, and these girls have already developed feelings and can't bare to live without them, it's probably more attachment than love.

If I was to sum up my behaviours, maybe I'm a little awkward occasionally I'm well aware of that and working on it. But generally I'm a good attentive listener, and have strong moral values that don't shift. I feel I have a dynamic personality I show interest in areas of personal development, I look into finance, fitness, health/eating correctly, I'm studying to develop my career and also I'm finding my muse, I'm currently working on a project developing an online product with a sexual health psychologist for something that is in high demand and doesn't exist. I'm doing a hell of a lot of research on marketing on the way.

IS this^ what I need to express? But I would rather just get on with it than needlessly discuss it. Something feels out of line here, maybe there's too much ego and arrogance floating around on my part, but if these are the guys I'm up against I have absolutely zero qualms about how my dating life is going to turn out when I finish my exams in 5 weeks. Perhaps I'm missing something? I really don't know, dumbfounded and amazed.

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 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 10:07 pm 
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"Really smart": Can you describe that to me? How is she smart? Did she show you her college entrance exams? Her thoughts on global warming? Does she have a PhD in physics? Describe to me what SMART means to you. Do you want to know why many girls don't date men of high value and never will? It's because their perception of self worth is so low that in their WILDEST DREAMS, they couldn't imagine that a man of any value would ask them out for any reason other than to taste of her vagina. It's simple as that. As long as you play it straight with them, they play it straight with you. And don't be so quick to label other guys this way or that way. The plumber sounds like loads of fun. . . and a guy who docks his boat a few boats away from me is a plumber. . . a very good one.

Your story reminds me of a cousin who told me about a friend whose daughter was dating the dishwashing boy of some local restaurant. They got to talking about it and decided it was a good idea to get her out of slummy areas and get her to hang out in wealthier, more "classy" places. Here's my reply to my cousin, "Remember I told you that I had dinner at ______'s castle and ______'s rooftop of his own building in HK? They have more dishwashers in both places than the entire town where that girl works." - think about what this means. People always tend to meet their "match" no matter what. . .


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 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 11:07 am 
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artfulroger wrote:
For me making an approach personal, allows me to be authentic and showing interest in someone is actually quite rare, and I pride myself on being different. I can live with not getting 100s of lays, I'm just here to meet quality women, and I know they don't lurk in bars or clubs (generally speaking).

I'll expand on this later, but now I have to rant.

I am literally dumbfounded at some of the girls I know and the AFCs/beta males(hell even delta males) they are dating. I went to a party last night and for the first time a girl I know brought her boyfriend. She is really smart, really cute and very open minded. And I thought her boyfriend would have been of the same ilk, well how wrong I was. He is a plumber, and his hobbies involve the gym, boxing and being passionate about football, he could express his feelings for football more so than her.

A second girl, albeit went through a mentally abusive relationship last year; is currently seeing a guy in his early 30s he works as a hotel doorman, and is basically an alcoholic, he necks a few beers every night on his own in a dark room. She is really pretty and incredibly open, she told me the depths of that abusive relationship last night, it was intriguing stuff. They've been seeing each other 6 months.

Kasabi, you've often written the formula on this forum, value = perceived benefits/cost. I do not see any value these guys attribute to their lives, I really don't. Their habits are plain and predictable, they operate unconsciously and have probably never tried to do anything challenging recently. Hell they're not even fun or exciting, my only prediction is they're a "make do" until a better deal comes along. Then it's too far down the line, and these girls have already developed feelings and can't bare to live without them, it's probably more attachment than love.

If I was to sum up my behaviours, maybe I'm a little awkward occasionally I'm well aware of that and working on it. But generally I'm a good attentive listener, and have strong moral values that don't shift. I feel I have a dynamic personality I show interest in areas of personal development, I look into finance, fitness, health/eating correctly, I'm studying to develop my career and also I'm finding my muse, I'm currently working on a project developing an online product with a sexual health psychologist for something that is in high demand and doesn't exist. I'm doing a hell of a lot of research on marketing on the way.

IS this^ what I need to express? But I would rather just get on with it than needlessly discuss it. Something feels out of line here, maybe there's too much ego and arrogance floating around on my part, but if these are the guys I'm up against I have absolutely zero qualms about how my dating life is going to turn out when I finish my exams in 5 weeks. Perhaps I'm missing something? I really don't know, dumbfounded and amazed.


Unfortunately (but also fortunately) attraction isn't based on logic. You may be doing all these things, which are great, but interacting with a girl is yet another different thing. The plumber, as kasabi said, may be a lot of fun, giving the girl a heck of a lot of emotions, and the footballer is probably unstifled and carefree (just generalizing here). It is not the guys' work or lifestyle which causes attraction in a girl, it is his attitude and behavior. This is why you see promoters high on cocaine get chicks - and don't think that only dumb girls go for promoters or people you think have not such a great career path. Girls are girls, they are emotional, if a guy can spike her emotions, whatever they may be, he's got her thinking about him, and therefore attracted. Attracted means interested. And yes David DeAngelo is right, Attraction is not a Choice. These girls don't choose who they are attracted to. They just are. Just like you don't choose which girl you're attracted to.

You have good potential for a long term relationship. These other guys may or may not. However the beginning phases of the relationship, the pickup until the hookup, will always be very similar and are founded in the girl's illogical emotions being spiked. Anything after that for anything longer term, that's where your lifestyle will come in handy, and if you are a fun guy who also has potential for a successful career/future in general, the girl will be more inclined to stick with you over the long term. But remember that the very beginning of two people getting to know each other is not based on any of this. You can literally fuck a girl without her knowing anything about you apart from maybe your name, if you play it well.

If you fuck a girl within 2-3 hours, how well does she really know you? Probably not at all. But she feels like she does because of all the emotions playing within her, and probably within you as well. The pickup part of the game isn't based on your lifestyle, it's based on the interaction with the girl in the moment. And after you have sex, the girl has invested so much that she will probably stick around for a little while, and if she continues to enjoy your company, and you hers, no matter what kind of lifestyles you both lead, you could be together for quite a little while.


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 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 10:24 pm 
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Ok so today I worked with a girl that was drop dead gorgeous and brilliant personality. Or maybe her looks swayed my opinion?

Any way the reason I liked her, 1. played guitar, 2. had depth of character, 3. Open-minded 4. Good fun, very outgoing.

So this how it starts, I woke up with memories of some decent girls I've let slip in the past, especially one last time I did this exam invigilating job I occasionally do. Anyway I go to this exam invigilation job, and she gets selected to go into a different hall, and the member of staff asked for a volunteer to go with her, without a hesitation I said "I'll go." Leaving all the gawping chodes behind, there's was no way I was letting this one get away after that morning thought.

So we get chatting a little, we have to whisper because obviously it's an exam, and she seems pretty interested in me in general not sexually yet - although I was dressed up with trousers and tie etc, so I looked pretty good. So some of the things I found out about her, she's an actor and writer, she loves soul music and acoustic guitar music (such as Bon Iver). To be honest she was asking me a lot of questions, about myself, where I've worked etc.
- Here I could have suggested taking her to a blues music place near me, she would love it.

So anyway, lunch comes around and she's like what do you do for lunch, cafeteria etc? And the westfield shopping centre is just down the road, so I told I was heading there as I needed to grab some bits (genuinely did) and invited her to join me. We head down on the bus, and she express an interest in working with autistic children and I have had 7 months of that so she quizzes me about that and I share with her what to expect and recommend a place to work. Anyway we get to the shopping centre and head into a cafe and grab some food, and this is where the conversation gets deep and I feel she's clearly sizing me up here, she asks questions on:
- Last films seen at the cinema, then my favourite films, and as I discuss it I feel emotions in myself twitch, gamed myself here lol. So by how that made me feel I ask back the same question, what's the last film you watched that really made you feel? I described a movie night I have with my friends where we watch bad films and get drunk like Mega Piranha (less than 3 stars on IMDB).
- We then discuss places we've visited in London, and she expresses a love for Hampstead Heath (big park with 4 natural Lidos in). I had another place come to mind here of where to take her, I didn't suggest it.
- My political stance, who I'm voting for. I was honest about this our views were somewhat similar.

I then go and grab the bits I need from a shop Boots to be precise, you know cosmetics, deodorant, skin creams etc, basically products

After lunch we went back to work, and it was great to be with her for the afternoon again. She then quizzed me a lot on Psychology and the areas of work, her sister wants to get into sexual health psychiatry after training as a doctor and she was asking all about this. This was general chit chat anyway, she had to go at 3.30 to go and teach guitar lessons, and I had to stay late to let 2 students finish an exam at 3.50 who were allowed extra time. So just before she heads out she was like do you have Facebook? I was like yeah let me give you my number instead there's like 2000 people with my name, (genuinely there is), so you'll never find me - so I put my number in her phone and she gives me a missed call. Then as she heads out she gives me the biggest hug in front of all the students, and heads out then wishes she'll hope to work with me again soon.

So then I text her a bit later on at 6:45pm
"I am STILL here. It's all your fault! x"
The rest:
Image
In hindsight I should have said nothing back or used her language and teased her more. "Govna!? Since when are we playing cops and robbers? You'll never catch me x" something like that.

That last text.. no response it's now 11pm, this happens all the time, I kind of fuck it up.
I've some plans if she doesn't text back.
- We spoke about food and I told her I cook the best Thai curry in north London, so I will text her a picture of my thai curry lunch and the words "my lunch beats up your lunch" she seems to love acting stupid, so I'll help her act that out.
- We get paid by the hour for this job, so the 30 mins I "took" off of her, indirectly ask her out for a coffee with that money

To be honest, I just want a genuine day 2 with this girl, I know that if she didn't leave early we would have hung out after work probably gone for a drink or something. This is the deepest most authentic connection I've felt with a girl in a while, probably because of the amount of time spent with her today - I genuinely feel like I've gamed myself? As always, prepared to fuck it up to gain perspective and learn from it.

This may sound like I was chasing, but the whole time I wanted her to prove to me shit wasn't batshit crazy, all the girls I've met recently have indulged in way too much make up, fake tan and their personalities are so sketchy. She proved against a lot of that today, I had ample opportunities to ask her out, I really should have got her number at lunch, it was a risk because there was a chance we wouldn't have been together that afternoon, luckily things were in my favour this time.

What I want to do:
- Kiss her a lot, and be close to her
- Take her to hampstead heath or the other place I know that's good for a day 2. Reasonably near her.
- Take her to that blues bar dance with her, then take her home.
- Thank her for making my day amazing, made the most boring job enjoyable.

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 Post subject: Re: Artful Roger Journal
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 9:27 am 
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After my most recent journal update I realised, my sticking point is extracting emotion in the early stages of talking to a girl, all my questions revolve around seriousness - you know like asking formalities in questions etc. rather than the use of imagination or reliving great moments they've been through. I need to consciously break this habit. I really need to get better at story telling (and creative writing) to lead them through visual or audio mental journeys.

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