Frame Control, Defining Reality, and Being High-Value


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:23 am 
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Oh no, we have trouble getting girls to fuck us. Woe ARE us.

A girl at My Bar was kidnapped at knifepoint and molested a few weeks ago. Suspect is in custody, and has rolled back on a confession.

Here's the fun part: he didn't even meet her in the bar. He was 20, not old enough to be in there, and wasn't *even* in there. He wasn't some random "urban thug," either. He was an accounting student at my alma mater. He was just walking the streets between this bar and the dorms. He saw her walking back from one to the other (she was over 21), and he pulled a knife on this girl and was feeling her up when she saw two random dudes walking down the block, ran towards them screaming, and Knife Boy ran away.

You all know this fucking face.

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These motherfuckers exist, and they are closer than you think.

And they have opinions.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:33 pm 
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I'm totally not talking about those guys.

If a decent guy has any legitimate beef, (guys shouldn't complain anyway; they should just work through it)----

-- it's not "oh no! Poor me! Girls won't fuck me!"

It's, "Danm! I'm doing my damndest to go out on these dates, meet girls, and get them to invite me Into their lives, and time and time again, all I get is 'sorry, didn't feel the instant click.'"

If the guy gets the girl to give him a chance and date him steadily, sex is a foregone conclusion.

I don't know what to say about rape boy. I'm befuddled. That's certainly not what I mean by "options"

And yes, I've seen prick faces like this time and time again. Kinda reminds me of a guy I used to sarge with (posted about) who would be cool outside the venue like, "yeah man, we'll back each other up; I'll distract the fat friend and you do the same for me", then would suddenly become all slick when we entered the venue and totally cock block me; he'd get into groups and have five people talking to him, eventually getting them to angle their backs to me. I'd ask about it later, and he'd explain it like a politician.

And another thing, I question the "options" rape boy actually had.

We all know about the sexual marketplace. And without getting too racial here, it is cited time and time again, that on the scale, or "totem pole" of race/gender combinations that are considered sexually attractive, the two bottom groups are asian males, and black women.

I've lost count of how many small, short, soft-spoken Asian males who I've worked with or known through friends, who can't even get Asian girls to date them! (Asian girls are dating white guys, by a huge proportion!)

Whenever someone says DC has no single women, people always cite that there are tons of black women. If you looks at stats, absolutely, that's true. That's taking into account the inner-city areas where the women are single because the guys are all locked up; many of these women are single mothers as well. I don't know anyone who would want to date a single mother in a bad neighborhood, whose baby-daddy is locked up for crack, and will soon be around once he gets probation.

I'm imaging rape-boy wasn't the most popular guy with the ladies, and the only chance he had was to pull a knife on a girl so he could feel her up.

I don't see how options comes into play in any way here.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:27 am 
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The fuck are you talking about? I'm talking about a thought system that legitimizes rape. That accepts it as "natural," and then complains when its proponents are "forced" to "defend it" as "natural."

If you aren't already a feminist, you have no business calling yourself a pickup artist.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:05 pm 
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Stormy wrote:
If you aren't already a feminist, you have no business calling yourself a pickup artist.

+1

The goals of feminism and the goals of the PUA community as a whole are VERY much aligned with each other.

Bring men and women back together on the same page.

Make sex less taboo and work on our issues from an open-minded perspective.

Encourage women to be more sex-positive and not stifled by patriarchal double standards.

End slut-shaming so that women can be as sexual as they want to be.

...and much more!

What's a pickup artist supposed to be doing anyway? He's supposed to be loving women. Being part of and perpetuating a system that oppresses women at an institutional level is far from a demonstration of love.

Any dude who subscribes to MRA thought is doing the world of disservice, making it harder for everyone to get laid, and severely limiting their own potential while pumping up their egos instead.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:59 pm 
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Chief wrote:
Stormy wrote:
If you aren't already a feminist, you have no business calling yourself a pickup artist.

+1

The goals of feminism and the goals of the PUA community as a whole are VERY much aligned with each other.

Bring men and women back together on the same page.

Make sex less taboo and work on our issues from an open-minded perspective.

Encourage women to be more sex-positive and not stifled by patriarchal double standards.

End slut-shaming so that women can be as sexual as they want to be.

...and much more!

What's a pickup artist supposed to be doing anyway? He's supposed to be loving women. Being part of and perpetuating a system that oppresses women at an institutional level is far from a demonstration of love.

Any dude who subscribes to MRA thought is doing the world of disservice, making it harder for everyone to get laid, and severely limiting their own potential while pumping up their egos instead.


Read "The End of Men" by Hanna Rossin and come back here and tell us you're on board with today's feminism.

She not only claims a certain world is coming about, where men are more and more inferior shit, and women are calling the shots more and more, but even seems to advocate it! We're not talking about equality here.

it is the new service economy, which doesn’t care about physical strength but instead apparently favors “social intelligence, open communication, the ability to sit still and focus” — things that “are, at a minimum, not predominantly the province of men”

2008-2009, and the tough times it wreaked on my life, served as the impetus for some research on existing dual-income couples with the unemployed male (indeed, most of the job-losses went to men).

As it turns out, on an overwhelming scale, women can't stand their out of work husband/live-in boyfriend, are increasingly unsympathetic, and unsupportive.

Men who try their damnedest to find a job but can't, so the women see them as losers in life and kick them to the curb.

This has been called the "last vestige of a patriarchal, politically incorrect society that's endured"

So these women want to have their cake and eat it too!

Maybe we're talking about semantics here, but I don't think the feminism you advocate is the one most guys have had brushes with. (As soon as my company that laid me off in 2008 was able, they filled my position with a hot blonde.)

How's that for "feminism"?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:57 am 
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Just because I disagree with Mystery doesn't mean I can't call myself a "pickup artist."

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:02 pm 
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poodogr wrote:
Read "The End of Men" by Hanna Rossin and come back here and tell us you're on board with today's feminism.

She not only claims a certain world is coming about, where men are more and more inferior shit, and women are calling the shots more and more, but even seems to advocate it! We're not talking about equality here.

it is the new service economy, which doesn’t care about physical strength but instead apparently favors “social intelligence, open communication, the ability to sit still and focus” — things that “are, at a minimum, not predominantly the province of men”

2008-2009, and the tough times it wreaked on my life, served as the impetus for some research on existing dual-income couples with the unemployed male (indeed, most of the job-losses went to men).

As it turns out, on an overwhelming scale, women can't stand their out of work husband/live-in boyfriend, are increasingly unsympathetic, and unsupportive.

Men who try their damnedest to find a job but can't, so the women see them as losers in life and kick them to the curb.

This has been called the "last vestige of a patriarchal, politically incorrect society that's endured"

So these women want to have their cake and eat it too!

Maybe we're talking about semantics here, but I don't think the feminism you advocate is the one most guys have had brushes with. (As soon as my company that laid me off in 2008 was able, they filled my position with a hot blonde.)

How's that for "feminism"?


Let me find out you havin' inner game problems.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:23 pm 
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Stormy wrote:

Let me find out you havin' inner game problems.


Nah, no more than any average guy who wouldn't approach a table of 5 girls.

Inner game problems, IMHO, are for people like (and I won't name names here) this guy who was incredibly negative, asking for advice, then dismissing it all, and ultimately had his identity revealed as this guy who does this on forums the world over. That's inner game problems.

I just disagree with some feminist double speak. MRA's, and I this is semantics here too, the ones I'm thinking about as legitimate, are the aforementioned ones trying to make changes in the courts, etc to make things more equal for both men and women.

MGTOW's, they can shove it for all I care. I have honestly no clue where they're coming from (go asexual due to disgust with snooty women??!)

Then there's the RooshV perspective and I don't even think there's a term for it. Someone may know it, but again, read "Patricia's Cell Phone."

Mystery kind of just affirms the MRA complaints, partly with uneducated, faux evolutionary speak; that's why I disagree with him, and he also comes from more of a "matter of factly", "women are just like this, deal with it" apologist standpoint.

The above are inner game issues. I'm like most guys. I think not having the blonde Mohawk and being this loud, flamboyant guy that'll storm up to a table of 5 girls (Lukealicious) doesn't mean a guy has inner game problems.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:42 pm 
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Stormy wrote:
PUAs need to stop taking advice from MRAs. MRAs are fucking scum.



Dude what the fuck? You're my favourite poster on this site but that is awful. I think you're confusing MRA's with being an arsehole MRA.

80% of suicides are male
60-80% of homeless are male
Men lose 80% of custody cases
It goes on an on. There are actually some real issues around the sacrificial nature of masculinity and they very rarely get much attention, especially not when compared to issues like the gender pay gap.

Women have problems. Men have problems. What's wrong with trying to empower both sexes? There's arsehole feminists and there's arsehole MRA's. There's certainly no need to label all of one as scum.

And before it gets said, Feminism has nothing to do with mens issues. It's purely about empowering women. Which is fine by me, I just get annoyed when people claim it's something it's not.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:20 pm 
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Case in Point: Feminists actually mischaracterize and misconstrued the "gender pay gap" as something that it's not, and this is screwing over women more than anything, not to mention making unnecessary enemies out of a whole lot of guys.

Yeah there's a pay gap, but it's not for the reasons they say.

They say that if you have a twin son and daughter, with equal resumes and Raul qualifications, and they go in for a job, the girl either won't get the job or will get it at 30% less pay.

Bullshit. That's never happened and never could. Arguments like that do women a disservice.

Women, much more than men, choose more family friendly, lower paying occupations, like teaching. They also take several years off of their careers to raise kids.

If two women start a job at the same time and a year in, woman A takes off 5 years to raise a kid, while woman B works all the way through, building up her experience and pay, should woman A be able to just return to the workplace right at the salary that woman B is at, and worked hard to get?! Most would say "fuck no! She hasn't earned it!"

That's what the "gender gap" is about.

Yes there are good MRA's; I keep mentioning the ones trying to make changes in the courts, and it falls on deaf, feminist ears.

Ever see a good, decent man go through a Divorce proceeding?

Okay then.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:58 pm 
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Chief wrote:
Stormy wrote:
If you aren't already a feminist, you have no business calling yourself a pickup artist.

+1

The goals of feminism and the goals of the PUA community as a whole are VERY much aligned with each other.

Bring men and women back together on the same page.

Make sex less taboo and work on our issues from an open-minded perspective.

Encourage women to be more sex-positive and not stifled by patriarchal double standards.

End slut-shaming so that women can be as sexual as they want to be.

...and much more!

What's a pickup artist supposed to be doing anyway? He's supposed to be loving women. Being part of and perpetuating a system that oppresses women at an institutional level is far from a demonstration of love.

Any dude who subscribes to MRA thought is doing the world of disservice, making it harder for everyone to get laid, and severely limiting their own potential while pumping up their egos instead.


Whilst at the same time labeling any guy who approaches women a rapist, getting PUA's banned from countries and labeling them as rape enablers and the worst person on the planet. Modern feminism seems obsessed with vilifying male sexuality


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:23 am 
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EademMutataResurgo wrote:
Chief wrote:
Stormy wrote:
If you aren't already a feminist, you have no business calling yourself a pickup artist.

+1

The goals of feminism and the goals of the PUA community as a whole are VERY much aligned with each other.

Bring men and women back together on the same page.

Make sex less taboo and work on our issues from an open-minded perspective.

Encourage women to be more sex-positive and not stifled by patriarchal double standards.

End slut-shaming so that women can be as sexual as they want to be.

...and much more!

What's a pickup artist supposed to be doing anyway? He's supposed to be loving women. Being part of and perpetuating a system that oppresses women at an institutional level is far from a demonstration of love.

Any dude who subscribes to MRA thought is doing the world of disservice, making it harder for everyone to get laid, and severely limiting their own potential while pumping up their egos instead.


Whilst at the same time labeling any guy who approaches women a rapist, getting PUA's banned from countries and labeling them as rape enablers and the worst person on the planet. Modern feminism seems obsessed with vilifying male sexuality



/\ /\ /\ This.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:21 pm 
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Stormy wrote:
industrial_62 wrote:
honestly this has been one of the most inspirational posts, bc i consider my self and for the most part a natural never really had any problems what so ever just got into this when there was a string of bad relationships usually the girl breaking up with me, but honestly man thank u for this post ive been waiting for a pua like this who doesnt use gambits, or tricks (which do work sometimes) but like u said its all about congruence and inner game which if was i was working on before i even knew others worked on it.

KEEP UP THE POSTING :)


Heh. Thanks. But I've gotta give credit where credit is due; I'm not the first guy to talk about this stuff. Not by damn sight. Like I said, I was heavily inspired by Flawless Natural, and dudes like Zan, David D, and Juggler have been teaching this forever. I'm just giving you all my take on it.

THE GOLDEN RULE OF NATURAL GAME

Pickup has a lot of rules. A lot of these rules are "number one rules" or "the first thing you should know." PUAs apparently aren't very good at prioritizing. :P

But seriously, the Golden Rule of Natural Game, as articulated by Alex~ of RSD, is this: "Whatever you feel, she feels."

So, you want that vibe that I've been talking about? You want an interaction to be flirtatious? Guess what: no set of lines or routines is going to do that. As some other Most Important Rule articulated by - umm... someone, I forgot who - states, this game is not logical. It is emotional.

That's right, EMOTIONS. Those weird feelings inside of us guys that we try to ignore most of the time in favor of our logical minds. Those things that we try to suppress in favor of a flowchart or IOI count.

Girls live in their emotions in the same way that fish live in water. It is their reality. Their desire to do the sex with guys is linked so tightly with their emotions that there's practically no difference between the two. Same goes for guys, by the way: your desire to sleep with girls is primarily an emotional one.

Primarily.

There are certain instances where your drive to sleep with a girl is NOT emotional. This is where things can go horribly, horribly wrong.

EGO VERSUS INTENT

Why are you studying pickup? Why are you out in the field talking to people you don't know? It's because you eventually want to get close to a girl or several girls, right? Maybe you want to sleep with them. Maybe you want a relationship with one of them.

But why do you want that?

Look inside and be honest with yourself about this. Are you doing this because you want more notches on your bedpost? Are you doing this because you want to "be an MPUA?" As in, for the title of "Master Pickup Artist?" (I've gotta stop with these digs on Mystery, it's unbecoming) For the adoration and respect of your lair-mates? The guys on this board? Your friends? To catch the attention of a pickup company so you can become an instructor? Are you doing this for approval and status?

If you are, then in the immortal words of Anonymous,



All of the reasons listed above are ego reasons. That's right, the ego. That evil, evil fucker inside your head that will mess you up any chance it gets. Your ego NEEDS approval. It NEEDS people to like you. It NEEDS you to not get blown out, because that would mean that people disapprove of you. Therefore, it will explode any doubt you may have about a set going well before you go in and give you AA. It will convince you that the girl won't approve if you try to kiss her and give you escalation anxiety. It will try to convince you that you will fail. And it NEEDS you to listen to it in order for it to survive.

The ego is needy, isn't it?

And if you let it run your shit, YOU will be needy. And you can't have that.


HOW DO I GET RID OF THAT BASTARD?

Tolle. Also, by simply drowning it out with stuff you DO want going on in your head. Speaking of which, enough about this negative crap. Let's talk about where you should be. In fact, fuck it. I'm gonna get you there RIGHT NOW.

SO WHAT SHOULD I BE FEELING?

In a word, horny. Start this video up and then let it play. Listen to it as you're reading. THIS IS IMPORTANT. It'll help you get into the headspace that you need to be in.

THIS URL IS NOT WORKING

(magnificent blablabla)

"Hey, I'm me. I just thought you were adorable and I had to meet you."


First of all: BUMP

Second, the first time when I read this thread, about a year ago, the video's you posted within the posts really helped me get into the vibe of the post. Please refresh, the link I quoted doesn't work (it's on the first page of this thread). If I find more wrong links, I will edit this post.
I also see that the beginning of the thread holds a different vibe than the end. For any new readers: start at the beginning, it's GOOD stuff (says me as an inexperienced nobody)!

EDIT: About a quarter of the video's you posted aren't working anymore. Your posts are very very very nicely written and thus very readable, but I find that the video's do add value to your posts. I would like to see them restored!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:03 am 
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At one point I had nothing to look forward to in life. My inner game was on the rocks and I felt that my lack of success had nothing to do with experience but I have grown as much as I would like for everyone else to do as well.


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Stormy wrote:
Continuing...

A CRITIQUE OF PICKUP

I've seen a ton of focus all over the PUA world on being "higher value" by being cocky, demeaning people, and generally acting like a jerk. To be sure, there's a lot of material on this subject, so it's going to be the majority of what you read about.

As such, people tend to put waaaaay more cockiness into their game than they need to.

Aspiring pooahs are told to walk into a place like they own it, don't take shit from anyone, etc. And they almost inevitably take it too far.

They're told not to be friendly to a girl until she's "earned" it. Disqualification, takeaways, negs, etc.

I've seen and heard of guys responding to compliments with busting on a girl. I've done it myself. And I've found myself needing to open up a new set soon after.

I've heard of guys busting on girls who open them. If there's a more inappropriate time to bust on a girl, I don't know what it is.

Even David DeAngelo has stated that sometimes he wishes he never said the words "cocky funny." Likewise, Herbal has responded to criticism of the neg by pointing out that a neg is, at most, three seconds of an entire hours-long interaction.

My game didn't really take off until I dropped most of the cockiness, ball-busting, etc. from my repertoire and just started being friendly. It worked awesome for me because I'm congruent with it. I want my interactions to have a friendly vibe. I want positivity and happy flowers floating on the breeze when I'm in a set.

My game suffered earlier because having too much cockiness, or being incongruent with it, comes off as extremely low-value. Go overboard with the disses and you come off looking like a socially retarded misanthrope, not a high-value cool guy. Even if you're congruent, you're congruent with a low-value identity.

I got to thinking a while ago about the naturals I know. One thing they all have in common is that I've NEVER seen one of them neg. Ever. If they're hitting on a girl, they're locked onto her like a bear trap. The flirty vibe is clear, present, and obvious. And woe to the man who interrupts it.

I've seen them ball-bust ON OCCASION. And when they do, it's extremely playful. Like it's a joke and everyone knows that they don't really mean it. They're really, really heavy on the "F" in their CF balance. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that they're joking with a tiny bit of making fun of the girl in it. It's nowhere near 50/50. And they use it very, very sparingly. The vast majority of their pickups are super-friendly.

I think that the overemphasis on disqualification, and indirect game in general, stems from a fear of putting your actual personality on the line with the possibility that you may be rejected.

I think that the distaste for direct openers comes from a belief, in the people learning pickup, that they themselves are low value, and that there is therefore no way that a girl would ever respond positively to a direct opener from them.

I think that fear of rejection in general is a result of people letting other people define their realities for them.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE FRIEND ZONE AND BEING NEEDY?

Being needy and being friendly are two entirely different things. It's totally possible to be nice to someone you've just met and not be needy. I do it all the time. I come with a happy, friendly vibe that everyone wants to be a part of.

Being friendly to seek approval is needy. Being UNfriendly to "raise your value" is needy. Needy people depend on others' reactions.

Naturals don't.

They're friendly because they're friendly. They like people. So they want to be nice to people. They don't seek approval from people because they know their vibe will carry them. They know they're already high value. So they act like magnanimous celebrities, spreading their happiness and friendliness and smiles wherever they go.

If the people they're talking to don't like that, they either ignore them or move on to greener pastures.

BUT I JUST LEARNED THIS COOL TECHNIQUE, AND...

Fine. Use it if you want. Just make sure you don't shoot yourself in the foot and fuck up the vibe with it.

Because that's what really makes you attractive in a social setting: your ability to set and maintain a vibe. Preferably one that people want to be a part of.

That's what makes an alpha, remember?

The dude that produces the vibe that everyone else wants to be in.

Fuck DHVs. Fuck "raising your value." The only DHV you need is the ability to take a *bleh* night on the town for a group of people and turn it into an awesome happy fun time. That's how you "demonstrate value:" by bringing value.

ALRIGHT, TELL ME ABOUT DIRECT OPENERS.

The way I first got into direct game was via Flawless Natural. Yeah, yeah, shameless RSD plug here. Whatever. It revolutionized my game.

You CAN walk directly up to your target, bypassing the rest of the group, and tell her that she's cute and that you want to meet her.

You CAN then turn to the rest of the group, introduce yourself, and ask them if it's okay with them if you hit on their friend. Like, openly. No equivocation.

You CAN do this. It's not hard. In fact, it's a lot easier than trying to game a girl up by hiding behind a bunch of indirect openers, false time constraints, false disqualifications, negs, and takeaways. Pretending is hard. Doing what you actually want to do isn't.

All you need is the understanding - not the belief, not the knowledge, but the fully-internalized understanding that it WILL work.

You've got to understand that you're going to make the girl's DECADE when you come out of nowhere and tastefully start hitting on her.

You've got to understand that nobody in that group is going to stop you.

And you've got to understand that even if you accidentally pop open the girlfriend of one of the dudes in the set, nobody's going to give you shit for it. Apologize, congratulate the guy on a nice catch, and roll out. The girl will get validation from being opened, and the boyfriend will get validation from you thinking his girlfriend is hot and then "surrendering" to him when you find out she's with him.

Even with a failed approach, everyone comes away happier.

'NOTHER MENTAL EXERCISE

Imagine that you're out with your cherish. That's "girlfriend" for you non-RSD people, or "LTR" for you Mystery Method people.

Guy rolls up and drops that direct opener on your girlfriend. She's frozen, deer-in-headlights style.

Guy turns to your group and asks if it's okay. You or someone else mentions that he just hit on your girlfriend.

Guy: "Oh. OH! Wow, I'm sorry, dude. My bad. Y'all have a good night. Nice catch, by the way."

Are you gonna pick a fight with that guy?

Didn't think so. Neither will any dude in field.

When I come back, more on direct game and how to develop your inner game so that you can do it (although, for serious, if you're reading this, you can probably do it right now).


Just wanted to say this whole post is dope, but this particular portion really speaks to me. I've always been a naturally funny guy, and I can always manage to get a good laugh (admittedly I take it too far at times, but I'm working on that). Anyhow, cocky/funny has been OK for me, but I've always had the most success just being nice. That makes perfect sense to me too, because congruency wise, that is ideal for me. I've always been one to want to help others and do philanthropic things, so why shouldn't I just use that? Really it makes sense; who the fuck doesn't want to be around the guy who strives to make everyone's day better! I think the reason c&f is a thing because of a fear of the friend zone... wouldn't some kino simply just negate that? Because that would be the most logical thing. I love being sarcastic, but I'm gonna try and just be who I am in my efforts of a pickup for now on, with the ocassional sarcastic, playful remark. Dig the fuck out of this read.


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