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Chief
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Joined: 23 Aug 2007
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 Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: Ask Chief (Advanced Questions) |
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DO NOT ASK ME SIMPLE QUESTIONS ABOUT ONEITIS. JUST GFTOW, OR POST ABOUT IT IN THE NEWBIE BOARD.
I have been in the community since 2003. This thread is for anyone with questions about:
> PUA-related ebooks, DVD programs, etc. I have exposed myself to and researched most of the available products on the market.
> My opinion for ethical/moral/philosophical guidance in regards to pickup.
> Leadership dynamics and group organization, such as PUA Lairs and social circles.
> Speed Seduction.
> Basics of the history of "The Community."
> Teaching others the art of pickup.
> Anything from the perspective of my current personal style to the pickup arts, i.e. "I know that I can do this, this, or this, in this situation, but what would you do, Chief? And why?"
>Being an Asian PUA in American society.
> Anything pickup-related that you may consider to be "advanced" and cannot find the answer for anywhere else.
This thread is NOT for basic questions about pickup. For those, you can ask Rye Lee at: [link]
and The Doctor at: [link]
For a female's perspective on a short, succinct question, get out of the house and use it as an opinion opener. Otherwise, ask Zip at: [link]
For questions about Online Game, ask J Smooth at: [link]
For a basic list of PUA acronyms and their meanings, go to: [link]
Last edited by Chief on Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:34 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Zip
Moderator
♥ Forum Mommy ♥
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| From your experience as a leader and member of lairs, how important is a code of conduct or a mission statement for each specific lair? Are these rules and codes necessary or not? Are they unspoken or should they be codified? |
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Chief
Super Moderator
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1930
Location: New Orleans
Reputation: 189.6
votes: 18
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Zip wrote: | | From your experience as a leader and member of lairs, how important is a code of conduct or a mission statement for each specific lair? Are these rules and codes necessary or not? Are they unspoken or should they be codified? |
Thank you for the excellent question, Zip.
For any group with similar goals consisting of members with different temperaments, talents, and convictions, a broad code of conduct/mission statement is so important that it is inevitable for any surviving group, whether it be written or unspoken.
In evolution, when a species faces any challenge, it can do one of three things:
1. Move.
2. Adapt.
3. Die out.
Lairs and groups will be subject to growth and the process of evolution with every challenge they face. Assuming that lairs cannot "move," they must either adapt by creating codes or die out. If not, the lair isn't facing challenges, meaning that the lair is already dead in a sense (completely inactive).
The closer-knit the group/lair is, the better it can get away with having an unspoken, tacit code. The longer it lasts and the more members it has, the more there will be a need for something more tangible.
I am in the San Francisco/Bay Area Lair because I go there when I go home from college. They are very organized with specific rules because their membership count is in the hundreds. The New Orleans lair, which I am one of the three current leaders of, is facing some challenges right now and we are in the process of needing adaptation. We are getting more and more members and will get more organized with tangible codes and rituals to unify the larger numbers.
The Attraction Theory Group is my own personal group of close-friend PUAs. For a while, we did not have a written doctrine. As we grew, I mistakenly ignored the need for a written code. By word of mouth, we just agreed on two simple ethical rules:
1. Bros before hos.
2. Leave her better than you found her.
We never discussed these rules to detail and just went on the assumption that we would all understand these two rules in the same way.
Big mistake. One of the more prominent members thought he could twist his own selfish interpretations of these rules and get away with it. He stirred up a good deal of drama that almost tore the group in half.
After his exile from The Attraction Theory Group, I wrote up a more specific, yet still consisting of broad concepts, doctrine:
| Quote: | The Attraction Theory Group Doctrine and Oath
I practice and believe in the ethical rule of placing my friendships as a higher priority than my own lustful and/or romantic ambitions. I treat my fellowships with the other Attraction Theory Group members with the same dignity.
I practice and believe in the ethical rule of "leave her better than you found her." I strive toward the goal of making others happier and better people through my interactions with them. I do not abuse others.
Through my involvement in the Attraction Theory Group, I strive toward the goal of bettering myself and humankind.
Through the knowledge, insight, and wisdom I gain from Attraction Theory, I strive toward the goal of bettering myself and humankind.
I understand that I am at cause in the world and that I am completely responsible for my own actions.
I understand that I am a leader in every sense of the word and that I share responsibility for humanity.
I hold these core beliefs with complete sincerity. I strive toward understanding these values and how they relate to me, my identity, and my relationship with the world.
-Chief |
Since I applied this creed to the group, we became more clear-minded as to what our goals are and were better able to see past misguided interpretations of the group's purpose.
I hope that answered your question. |
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Castnett
PUA Forum Addict
Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 215
Location: The FC, CT
Reputation: 36.4
votes: 2
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Waddup Chief. I have a list of Ross Jeffries' patterns and I'm just wondering when you should implement these patterns? During A3? Also, is reading the Player Guide on fastseduction.com sufficient for understanding SS? |
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Chief
Super Moderator
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1930
Location: New Orleans
Reputation: 189.6
votes: 18
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Castig wrote: | | Waddup Chief. I have a list of Ross Jeffries' patterns and I'm just wondering when you should implement these patterns? During A3? Also, is reading the Player Guide on fastseduction.com sufficient for understanding SS? |
Well, you can technically throw in Speed Seduction is almost any phase of the game. The goal of Speed Seduction is to structure your use of language to captivate the imagination and pace/lead the subconscious.
Even Mystery claims to use some Speed Seduction after isolation, when he's doing one-on-one work with the target, so you know that SS can easily be mixed with the M3 model as you are trying to do. I personally think you can use SS patterns most effectively whenever you are one-on-one, but if you want to get used to Speed Seduction you should throw in subtle NLP bits here and there throughout the entire pickup, such as doing self-points when you are talking about admirable traits.
The Player Guide on the fastseduction site is very thorough. I know they have a section on SS and patterning. If you want to have some knowledge of SS basics to mix in with the rest of your game, it's going to be all you need, but always keep in mind that practice makes perfect. You won't truly understand any aspect of the game without actually practicing it over and over again in real life. If you want to look into SS more in-depth, there's a plethora of resources available at your fingertips on the internet and from the products available on Ross Jeffries' website.
I hope that answers your questions. |
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Chief
Super Moderator
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
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votes: 18
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Here's a question someone asked on another forum. I just thought I'd post up my response here because it's awesome.
His question:
| Quote: |
I have a question for you gentlemen. From what I've seen, a lot of pickup relies on a combination of conversational rhythm and emotional momentum to fascinate a woman. In most cases, the intended result is physical intimacy.
As I've mentioned in the past, this is not an acceptable outcome for me. I appreciate the ability to approach a woman more confidently, but I have moral apprehension about using even marginally manipulative means to achieve physical intimacy (not even so much as a makeout.)
Suppose that instead of using pickup to entice a woman into physical intimacy, I wanted to entice her to do something else, like play a game of chess (or some equally improbable pursuit.) How much of pickup relies on sexual cues to maintain momentum? Or is asking how to use pickup to get a girl to play chess just trying to use the pickup tool in the wrong way? |
My response:
| Quote: | | I have a question for you gentlemen. From what I've seen, a lot of pickup relies on a combination of conversational rhythm and emotional momentum to fascinate a woman. In most cases, the intended result is physical intimacy. |
Yes, you're absolutely right, but it's more like the natural result from the conversational and emotional flow you create leads to physical intimacy (or a tension to move toward physical intimacy) regardless of predetermined intent. That's just human nature.
| Quote: |
As I've mentioned in the past, this is not an acceptable outcome for me. I appreciate the ability to approach a woman more confidently, but I have moral apprehension about using even marginally manipulative means to achieve physical intimacy (not even so much as a makeout.) |
I'll tell you right now that men who use pickup with a "manipulation" mentality usually fail. It's not the right way to go about things. A good PUA understands that you can only control yourself, not other people. It's just that if you can develop yourself in a beneficial way through the pickup arts, you will become your "best self," and expressing your best self will inevitably attract others to you (whether you like it or not).
| Quote: | | Suppose that instead of using pickup to entice a woman into physical intimacy, I wanted to entice her to do something else, like play a game of chess (or some equally improbable pursuit.) How much of pickup relies on sexual cues to maintain momentum? Or is asking how to use pickup to get a girl to play chess just trying to use the pickup tool in the wrong way? |
If you "express your best self" as I have stated previously (it's all about authenticity, man), women will "like you for who you are." If you express yourself with passion you will become a vortex that sucks other people into your reality, and they will LOVE you for it. They will LOVE the experience. If chess is something you really genuinely enjoy, women won't be able to help but to feel a desire to be a part of that joyful experience. Yes, they will want to play chess with you.
Things like the Mystery Method may seem like an artificial outline for the purposes of seduction on th surface level, but any aspiring PUA needs to look deeper to find the true meaning. The Mystery Method isn't an outline for manipulation; it's an outline that describes a natural process. Unfortunately, most guys are out of touch with that natural process of courtship, influenced by mind-fucking social programming such as treating anything with long hair and boobs are something sacred and higher than yourself.
I was talking to one of my friends earlier today and he stated that he believed in chivalry. I said, "that's cool, but why?" Eventually, as we dug deeper, even though he told me that he would buy a drink for a girl he enjoyed the company of, he admitted that he would not buy a drink for one of his guy friends if he was enjoying company.
That's a double standard. It's not being true to yourself and therefore you are not "being yourself" by buying drinks for women. You are especially not "being your best self" if you aren't living in a fairly consistent alignment with your values.
I believe in chivalry, too, but in a different way, for different reasons. It's obvious that most guys follow a code of "chivalry" because they think it would impress women and therefore give them more of a chance to get laid, but I believe in expressing compassion for EVERYONE regardless of race, gender, economic standing, or any differences. This state of authentic consistency is something every PUA ultimately strives for. It's becoming "natural" at this art.
As you delve more into this discipline, you'll get a better understanding of these concepts and you won't be so attracted to the perception that it's all about those concepts of "manipulation" that make pickup look so flashy and cool. =P
So, yes. You can use these "tricks" to get women to play chess with you. I hope you find a woman who can beat you, though. Then you'll know you found a special person that challenges you to grow and mature with your passions that make you who you are.
...unless you don't actually like chess. Lying bastard =P |
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KingMidas
Member of PUA Forum
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 146
Location: St. Louis
Reputation: 11.9
votes: 2
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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How does it come to be that a pua gains a lot of experience without
settling down? What is the motivation to not settle down with a 9 or a 10? |
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Chief
Super Moderator
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1930
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| KingMidas wrote: | How does it come to be that a pua gains a lot of experience without
settling down? What is the motivation to not settle down with a 9 or a 10? |
I'll admit that I'm only 18 years old, but I do have plenty to say about this subject.
PUAs share the same skillsets and mindsets, but they are still all different people with different core motivations in life. That's one of the many things that make this community a beautiful one: diversity.
Some PUAs learn this discipline with the goal of eventually wanting to settle down. As Jlaix once so clearly stated in The Jeffy Show, "to get the one girl, you must be able to get all the girls." I bet you can recall from The Game by Style that he wanted to settle down with Lisa. I don't know about their current relationship status, but I've heard different stories. Some say that they broke up, and some say that they're still together, but nowadays no one says anything about it.
Even Mystery says that he would eventually want to marry a beautiful bisexual girl with fake tits...I think.
Some PUAs just want to live the life of Hugh Hefner. Some want a happy marriage. Some want MLTRs. Some want to be pimps or something. Whatever motivation a man may have, the pickup arts can offer the resources to help fulfill any goal he may have in regards to his love life.
I currently possess the goal of living the single life and to never settle down. However, I'm still keeping my mind open 
Now, about HB10s...
I personally don't use the 1-10 rating system, but I like Gunwitch's idea of "Your 10," and how you should be looking for a woman who you feel is a 10 to YOU, regardless of what the rest of society defines beauty.
Speaking from a biological perspective, someone who is a genuine 10 to you will be more attracted to you as well. And with someone like that, why wouldn't you want to settle down with her for at least a little while? |
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Jay Wa
PUA Forum Addict
Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 232
Location: Atlanta, GA (USA)
Reputation: 46.3
votes: 5
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I have been in the community since 2003. |
| Quote: | | I'll admit that I'm only 18 years old, |
Please explain. |
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Chief
Super Moderator
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
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Location: New Orleans
Reputation: 189.6
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Jay Wa wrote: | | Quote: | | I have been in the community since 2003. |
| Quote: | | I'll admit that I'm only 18 years old, |
Please explain. |
I joined the community when I was about 14.
WOW. HOW UNBELIEVABLE.
Here's my story more in-depth:
I am a short Asian guy who used to be horrible with girls. Throughout the earlier years of my life (mostly around middle school and early high school), my love life sucked. I followed all the “nice guy” rules and codes of chivalry or whatnot, but girls only saw me as a friend or "loved me like a brother" as a result. However, I was damn persistent and got rejected by a plethora of girls within those years. With each of those girls I was being the “nice guy” who complimented them every day, bought them gifts, succumbed to their every whim... and then I saw the guys they dated. I always thought they were selfish jerks and I swore to never be like them because they couldn’t have been the type of guys that girls really wanted, right? They only got the girls because they were white or something like that (I grew up in mostly Caucasian neighborhoods). I got so depressed from my failures that I began doing things to myself that weren't exactly wise in terms of my mental and physical health. I always thought, “If I were taller and if I were white things would be totally different.” Little did I know: the only thing that was holding me back was the fact that I knew nothing about the opposite sex! I also did not understand myself. Then, in 2003, I discovered “The Community.”
The Community followed many teachings about human nature. That sparked a new passion in my life which eventually became my college major: psychology. Ever since then I read several texts, many by Ph.D.'s, pertaining to psychology and theories of attraction. At an early age I began studying advanced subjects in psychology such as the effects of the EEA upon our biological impulses that determine our behavior, a.k.a. evolutionary psychology. The topic that always interested me the most in the field, however, was gender differences and how they affect our communication. The internet, books, and schooling have been amazing resources for me to soak up all this knowledge that people have been researching for years and years. I applied what I learned to my own life and became a happier and more attractive individual. As a musician, I also began seeing many correlations between pickup and musical performance. Everything in life began feeling more real and beautiful as I became more involved in the Community.
I will say right now with complete confidence that one day, I will become a mPUA. I'm going to help out thousands of guys out there that used to be like me so that they may have the option of living a more fulfilled, bright life with actual romantic OPTIONS.
I moved into New Orleans for college and started hanging out with the lair guys. The lair leader I met could see the inner game I have been developing over the years and was actually quite impressed. I worked my way up to solid recognition within the lair and the admin entrusted me with some responsibility...and I WILL rock the community with new innovations. |
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KingMidas
Member of PUA Forum
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 146
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| **Respect** Good answer. |
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raul
New to PUA Forum
Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 17
Location: US
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:02 am Post subject: HB9/10...how to get going! |
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Hey!..I moved recently to a place and there's a chick that works there..we just had a fun chat earlier, when i moved..she told me she is a title defender..and man she is hot!..days passed. She had earlier said if i find some time i should visit when she fights!
Whenever i have been around, really rare!..i have tried to play with her, for like seconds at max..trying to play little funny touch games.- not much to build rapo.
I was earlier playing pool and she walked in..and she too tried touching me..with a gesture(may be i am reading too much)..but then said if u want to come watch the fight, ...then i said send me the invite.
She said i don't want to snoop so u can give me ur details, i said and what about urs..so she gave me her contacts.
Now, while writing the details she said i have a man!..i had read that stupid line about 100$ and 200$..(not a recommended method) , but i said u know ..when u have a 100$..don't u want another 100..
she laughed and said u are funny!..
then told me she loves to cook..i said. then what are u cooking for me..
(she said..man I need to cook something..)..(I know i should have an exact thing in my mind, for what should be cooked.But, a AFC afterall.
Now..back to my perpetual prblm, what and where and how?As in what next.
She is really hot, has been state BP and tried US pageant too!..
And got a MAN!...
(i generally don't mess with others!..but..learning PUA on this..would be great!..and do me some good)
Masters! what do u say or guide! |
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Hobbit
PUA Forum Leader
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 893
Location: The Shire
Reputation: 111.3
votes: 11
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:39 am Post subject: |
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Heres a few questions.
1) Is PUA the downfall to effective evolution? Less effective genotypes learning techniques spreading their genes in an unnatural frequency. Weakens the species?
2) Our species has evolved to be monogamous. In having MLTR's, are PUA's trying to change the course of evolution? They are not God!
3) Is it true what they say about asians... you know... having wide screen vision? |
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Chief
Super Moderator
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1930
Location: New Orleans
Reputation: 189.6
votes: 18
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Hobbit wrote: | Heres a few questions.
1) Is PUA the downfall to effective evolution? Less effective genotypes learning techniques spreading their genes in an unnatural frequency. Weakens the species?
2) Our species has evolved to be monogamous. In having MLTR's, are PUA's trying to change the course of evolution? They are not God!
3) Is it true what they say about asians... you know... having wide screen vision? |
Hobbit,
1. I'm glad you asked questions about evolution. It is something I have been brainstorming for quite a while, especially in combination with current technology such as the pickup arts.
I believe that the pickup arts is a form of adaptation in terms of evolution. It's not a downfall. Throughout the course of evolution, a species can experience a sudden mutation, or they can genetically adapt a certain characteristic over time. As one of my middle school teachers once told me, if we all duct taped our legs together and swam all the time, we could eventually evolve to become mermaids. Therefore, I think the "less effective genotypes" have a great potential to stand the challenges of life and to eventually become "more effective" over several generations.
However, I do believe that it would weaken the species if PUAs were learning only Outer Game with the "fake it til you make it" concept in mind while reproducing a lot. Otherwise, I think the effects would be highly insignificant.
2. My favorite research text on evolutionary psychology is the Sexual Strategies Theories paper by Buss and Schmitt. In reading this study, it became apparent to me that our species has NOT evolved to become monogamous. The reason that it seems so is due to the feminist social programming of modern time combined with the reasoning David Deangelo described in his "It's OK to be a man" chapter in DYD.
In Sexual Selection and the Descent of Man, Trivers concluded that, because reproduction is a high risk and a huge investment for women, women would be a lot more pickier in choosing a mate. Since men have less to invest, they would want to reproduce as much as possible because it would be advantageous for their genes to do so.
Buss and Schmitt took Trivers' work and surveyed the hell out of many many people. They found, from survey answers, that men would generally want to have more sexual partners than women. In light of this study, I think the monogamy of our species is mostly due to social programming, and not evolution.
Now, I will concede to the fact that pair-bonds are necessary to raise offspring. However, as Mystery even says, after a few years, the child would naturally be raised by his/her peer group, and the pair-bond becomes no longer necessary.
3. Um... lol I've never looked through the eyes of a white man before, so I have nothing to compare to.  |
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Chief
Super Moderator
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1930
Location: New Orleans
Reputation: 189.6
votes: 18
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: HB9/10...how to get going! |
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| raul wrote: | | Hey!..I moved recently to a place and there's a chick that works there.. |
If you mean that she is a co-worker, I would recommend avoiding "shitting where you eat," unless the nature of your job handles all the logistical issues that may follow from doing so.
| Quote: |
Now, while writing the details she said i have a man!..i had read that stupid line about 100$ and 200$..(not a recommended method) , but i said u know ..when u have a 100$..don't u want another 100.. |
Let me start off by saying that I generally don't care about IOIs and whether or not a girl's "interested" in me or not because I assume the sale anyway. My general reality that I frame for me is that if I like a girl, she will like me, or I can get her to like me from expressing my authentic self very easily.
With that said, let's assume that she's given you the boyfriend objection due to the fact that she wishes to absolve herself of moral responsibility if she happens to cheat on him with you.
If you flinched and didn't pass that congruence test, however, next her and try again
| Quote: | she laughed and said u are funny!..
then told me she loves to cook..i said. then what are u cooking for me..
(she said..man I need to cook something..)..(I know i should have an exact thing in my mind, for what should be cooked.But, a AFC afterall. |
Food is awesome. Get her to cook something for you! Why? Because food is awesome. I'm not even talking about game. Food is awesome.
| Quote: | Now..back to my perpetual prblm, what and where and how?As in what next.
She is really hot, has been state BP and tried US pageant too!..
And got a MAN!...
(i generally don't mess with others!..but..learning PUA on this..would be great!..and do me some good) |
It's all up to you, man.
Don't be a sheep, but be the shepherd of your own life. Decide on how you can align your life to your core values by taking the actions you believe to be most authentic to who you are. If taking another man's woman is REALLY something that you would never do, just next her. Don't let a scarcity mentality get in the way of your judgment. If you want to go for it, your best bet would probably be to just pump massive BT and close. |
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